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Burqajoint
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Pergo Floors - Just Say No
      #1040297 - 12/12/06 02:14 PM (63.172.80.102)

Here's the situation:
A friend has a house he bought a couple of years ago with Pergo in the kitchen.

At night it looks ok when just the overhead light is on. During the day, light coming in through the french doors leading out to the deck, it's another story.
Each and every edge of every single piece has sort of buckled upward, kinda like the edge of a sticker peeling up.
One sees the same sort of thing with the butt edges of the old masonite siding.
With the floor we're talking about, it isn't enough to stub one's toe on and one doesn't feel it when walking over the floor wearing shoes. The stuff isn't peeling off, it's just swollen up enough to catch the light and spoil the look.
Even though it is consistent throughout, having the edges of the pieces of Pergo do that is not nice looking.

This floor was installed between 3 and 8 years ago, near as we can figure.
The guy who put it down is quite competent, so we don't believe it was installed improperly.

The lesson here: if you want the look of tongue-and-groove flooring, then install tongue-and-groove flooring. Taking a shortcut like this will come back to haunt you, as shortcuts often do.

As I like to say, this stuff looks good juuuuuuust long enough for the cat installing it to cash the check and get the hell out of town.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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kimcmitch
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1040303 - 12/12/06 02:25 PM (162.84.77.72)

I thought Pergo had a waranty on their flooring.

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error404
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: kimcmitch]
      #1040313 - 12/12/06 02:43 PM (67.142.130.46)

There's alot of knock-off Pergo flooring...they call it "laminate flooring" instead. While Pergo might have a juicy warranty, the knockoffs probably do not.

My home has alot of laminate flooring, mainly in my living and MBR, but it looks fine. SOunds like the problem is that the floor has gotten wet, and stayed wet, for some time. I have a small spot in my bedroom that is puffed up....nothing I can do about it either.

Laminates don't take water very well because it can puff up like a ballon. It's not a good choice for kitchen or bath. If you wanted a wood floor in those envirnments, I would stick with wood.

--------------------
"We need to lean even farther to the right."
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kimcmitch
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: error404]
      #1040316 - 12/12/06 02:47 PM (162.84.77.72)

I was just curious. My husband will not get laminate floors if you paid him. My parents have it in most of their house, but the stuff mars easily. Their dining room chairs are on wheels and there's tracks from the chairs in the laminate.

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Fait
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: error404]
      #1040323 - 12/12/06 02:52 PM (192.91.171.42)

QR: You're not supposed to wet-mop any laminate flooring incl. Pergo, right? If that floor had been wet-mopped for three to eight years, I'd imagine that's enough time for the edges to get goofy. I mean, it's not a HUGE amount of water at once, but a little bit at a time left to air dry over eight years could be enough to do the job, couldn't it?

I can't imagine putting in any flooring in a kitchen that couldn't be wet-mopped or wet-scrubbed. Hardwood maybe, but not laminate.


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Hurdleguru
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Fait]
      #1040336 - 12/12/06 03:01 PM (162.83.74.186)

The real wood in our house has done that near the dishwasher and the french doors...I won't ever have hardwood floor- real or fake - in a kitchen.

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error404
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: kimcmitch]
      #1040352 - 12/12/06 03:14 PM (67.142.130.46)

I've yet to put a scratch or dent in mine. But I have put down some nasty scuff marks from wearing black soled shoes and boots (which wipes up/rubs off fairly easily).

If I replace this floor in my living area, it'll be real hardwood. (and no, never in a kitchen or bath.)

--------------------
"We need to lean even farther to the right."
Dick Cheney -May 2009


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1040425 - 12/12/06 05:40 PM (71.62.116.81)

if the edeges are up and he had it put in 8 years ago good chance the install screwed the pooch you don't wanna bang it togeher and many folks do created just the effect you describe. a guy with experience doing real wood floors would be prone to doing it wrong cause banging was "the way we always do it"
i have a pergoe floor about 7 years old in a high traffic kitchen thats holding up just fine

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.

Edited by cassandrasdaddy (12/12/06 06:14 PM)


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sosueme
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1040433 - 12/12/06 06:02 PM (71.62.232.23)

I have pergo knock-off in my office, and I love it. It's been down about 3 years. Three big dogs and a rolling office chair haven't marred it one bit. I've even dropped lit smokes on it and not a mark.

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In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move - Douglas Adams


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: sosueme]
      #1040436 - 12/12/06 06:12 PM (71.62.116.81)

pergoes new enough to mess up the old timers. the malady described is commonly caused by "tapping" with the block at an angle that causes the block to crush ever so slightly the upper edge of the engineered board. there is a simlar product by tarket thicker and sandable a couple times about 3 a foot. the orher flaw is foks using cheap padding or none.
the carousel at funland has an engineered product tough floor!
some of the guarantees are decieving they warranty the material cost less than a quarter of the cost in some cases. you do get a decent floor for about the price of carpet though

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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john1315Moderator
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1040447 - 12/12/06 07:02 PM (71.161.47.230)

I highly suspect a wet mop. We have a Formica brand laminate floor that looks like ceramic tile in our kitchen (about 400 sq ft worth) and I put it in myself. Having 25 years of construction experience was helpful for my first shot at "interlocking" flooring. That was about 5 years ago and it still looks like it did the day I finished. Now that said, we had a freaky leak from where the deck meets the house and it got the flooring wet where it meets the toe kicks of the base cabinets. So all along there, the flooring has bubbled but still mostly unnoticeable due to the shoe molding and the tile look.

--------------------
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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1040450 - 12/12/06 07:11 PM (71.62.116.81)

i did one a while back glued joints at wet areas near sink dishwasher and frig.

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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F_Stop
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Hurdleguru]
      #1040459 - 12/12/06 07:38 PM (141.156.230.73)

Quote:

The real wood in our house has done that near the dishwasher and the french doors...I won't ever have hardwood floor- real or fake - in a kitchen.





My parents have real wood in their kitchen and its fine. The house is 8 years old.

--------------------
An egomaniac is someone who is hard of listening.


Wine must be good for you, Jesus drank it.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: F_Stop]
      #1040461 - 12/12/06 07:41 PM (71.62.116.81)

lota times they use prefinshed hardwood instead of the old days where the polyurethaned the wood in place and it got well sealed. the prefinished leaves gaps where the water can get in it tends to go in easier than dry out

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.

Edited by cassandrasdaddy (12/12/06 07:42 PM)


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F_Stop
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1040462 - 12/12/06 07:49 PM (141.156.230.73)

They had a broken pipe that made a mess, we cleaned it up and no problems. That may be the reason it is ok.

I am going to have hardwood when I build a house if I have the money, if not I will have Pergo. I have heard nothing but good things about Pergo.

--------------------
An egomaniac is someone who is hard of listening.


Wine must be good for you, Jesus drank it.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: F_Stop]
      #1040463 - 12/12/06 07:52 PM (71.62.116.81)

its not bad i've put a lot down the padding makes it quiet. the tarkett is real nice too can be sanded refinished

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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F_Stop
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1040466 - 12/12/06 08:05 PM (141.156.230.73)

If people put Pergo in their condos here they have to have padding. I am sure when I start planning my house I will ask you some questions.

--------------------
An egomaniac is someone who is hard of listening.


Wine must be good for you, Jesus drank it.


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john1315Moderator
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: F_Stop]
      #1040468 - 12/12/06 08:07 PM (71.161.47.230)

It's not padding per se (more of an underlayment) and in order to do the installation correctly you MUST use it. It does keep the noise down but it's primary porpose is to keep the floor from moving.

--------------------
Seek the truth. No matter where it lies.


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: kimcmitch]
      #1040470 - 12/12/06 08:21 PM (63.172.80.117)

Quote:

I was just curious. My husband will not get laminate floors if you paid him. My parents have it in most of their house, but the stuff mars easily. Their dining room chairs are on wheels and there's tracks from the chairs in the laminate.




I don't know about a warranty or whether the floor was wet-mopped or not. It seems to me that if wet-mopping is bad, then moisture absorbed from the atmosphere would be just as bad, but would just take longer to absorb.
So Pergo floors are ok unless someone spills a glass of water?
Or if the dog dish gets knocked over?

I am simply describing what I have seen.


I am with your husband, Kim.
Whether it is flooring or other things, I don't like imitation - I want the real thing.
That's why I have only original artwork on the wall, by the way.

I have worked on many old and/or historic buildings around here over the decades and much enjoy the quarter-sawn old-growth pine flooring one finds.
I was talking to a buddy of mine last night about a piece we took out of a choir loft of a church built in 1830 - the only piece of t&g flooring I have ever seen that was 26 feet long.
He still has it in his shop.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1040472 - 12/12/06 08:25 PM (71.62.116.81)

i was in a house where theres is 1500 feet with zero pad. guy wanted to know how i could fix it!! did i mention subfloor was uneven too?

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.

Edited by cassandrasdaddy (12/12/06 08:38 PM)


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1040482 - 12/12/06 08:44 PM (71.62.116.81)

old places are great i did a 160 yearold church where in spite of a genius bulding a brick hearth with no supports under floor joists.(2 1/2 tons of bricks in the middle of a 14 foot span) the floor only sank a few inches. all the new stuff was rotting away from the original structure

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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Borthwick
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1040539 - 12/13/06 04:42 AM (71.63.78.89)

QR: Kitchens and bathrooms are not the places to install pergo. Water+Pergo=Bad

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munkstir
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1040549 - 12/13/06 07:05 AM (71.62.236.64)

Quote:

i did one a while back glued joints at wet areas near sink dishwasher and frig.




And it's quite lovely -- thank you !!

--------------------
The bestest friend will be there when you fall off the wall ..... armed with Super Glue.


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sugarfree
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Borthwick]
      #1040593 - 12/13/06 08:53 AM (138.162.128.41)

Quote:

QR: Kitchens and bathrooms are not the places to install pergo. Water+Pergo=Bad




I'll agree no Pergo for those rooms. The best flooring for kitchens are linoleum, or traveltine. And for the bathrooms would be marble, or traveltine.


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: sugarfree]
      #1040781 - 12/13/06 02:27 PM (63.172.80.229)

I'm not familiar with traveltine.

Pergo, in the end is a cheapo shortcut.
Basically we're talking about having a picture of wood on your floor rather than wood itself.


Another thing I don't like about it is the image on the stuff.
The grain does not agree and the color does not match between the individual pieces portrayed.
Your jacklegs out there will just throw any old thing down, taking advantage of homeowners who do not know the difference; while a good carpenter will sort through bundle after bundle of lumber to get good, quarter-sawn stock to install.
Then the lumber is laid out and rearranged until the grain agrees and the color matches from piece to piece as it reads across the room.
There will not be these abrupt changes from one piece to another; rather the grain and color will flow together to give a harmonious look.
This requires the kind of time, effort and standard of quality that many just won't put into their work.

So what we are left with on the Pergo is an image of a pretend-wood floor that has been poorly installed.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1040804 - 12/13/06 02:52 PM (71.62.116.81)

pergoe is what it is and at about the same price as carpet it can be replaced if you decide you want a different color

since it floats there are no nails to deal with and over radiant flooring thats a good thing

you wana really see pergoe fubar? go to chords restaurant someone ran it crossways and the entire length of the building with no expansion joints its got rolling humps from expansion. its funny its so bad

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.

Edited by cassandrasdaddy (12/13/06 08:17 PM)


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1040938 - 12/13/06 08:06 PM (63.172.80.237)

Quote:


Another thing I don't like about it is the image on the stuff.
The grain does not agree and the color does not match between the individual pieces portrayed.
Your jacklegs out there will just throw any old thing down, taking advantage of homeowners who do not know the difference; while a good carpenter will sort through bundle after bundle of lumber to get good, quarter-sawn stock to install.
Then the lumber is laid out and rearranged until the grain agrees and the color matches from piece to piece as it reads across the room.
There will not be these abrupt changes from one piece to another; rather the grain and color will flow together to give a harmonious look.
This requires the kind of time, effort and standard of quality that many just won't put into their work.

So what we are left with on the Pergo is an image of a pretend-wood floor that has been poorly installed.





Take a look at that Pergo floor with the image of different colored pieces of wood whose grain does not agree giving it that hodgepodge look to it.
Now imagine the same thing on your dining room table or your cabinets.

It's just not done (well, it is, but it shouldn't be).

Standards have slipped so that many in the business are not aware of the term of art, "agree," much less incorporate it in their work.
I learned this term of art a long time ago in Sammy T's downtown. I was sitting at the bar visiting with this crusty old carpenter and I said I thought the bar was well made.
The gentleman gave me a few lessons that have proved invaluable over the years, one of which was putting things like that, or a floor, together so the wood agrees.


In the case above that caused me to start the thread, a house has a Pergo floor that looks like hell.
Maybe it was wet-mopped, maybe it was something else.
Maybe the kids spilled something.
Maybe the dog peed on it.
Maybe humidity was enough.
Maybe it isn't moisture at all, but the effects of heavy traffic causing the pieces to press against each other slightly, millions of times to where it slightly swells along its edges.
Maybe the first owner of the house forgot to warn the new owner that the floor in the kitchen should not be mopped.
None of us really know.
The surface is not falling apart, this is more of an aesthetic issue.

My criticism is twofold:
one, the joints between the pieces do not remain as out of sight as they do when the stuff is put down -there is just no denying what has occurred in my friend's kitchen
and
two, the stuff I have seen looks like a poorly laid floor, what with the wood not agreeing and the color not matching.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1040952 - 12/13/06 08:37 PM (71.62.116.81)

i think they've managed to convince folks that that hodgepodge look is good. there are some of the patterns that resemble real wood much more than others the tarkket product is a good example. though tarkett makes a pergoe clone as well. the pergoe was 8 bucks a foot when it came out can get it for 2 or less now. they have one with the pad preapplied to the board. the pad is a another selling point. on a second floor you get a quieting efffect similar to carpet. on a basement or concrete slab you can use the right paqd as an effective vapor barrier. and just the fact that you can float a floor right over concrete opens options that hardwood make difficult. though i won't willingly warranty pergoe in a basement unless its bone dry year round

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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yayagirl
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1041074 - 12/14/06 08:02 AM (70.104.235.16)

Ya'll are scaring me.. We bought pergo for out basement flooring... We should be installing it after the new year...The basement is dry no leaks etc...

Im hoping this will work.



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john1315Moderator
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1041088 - 12/14/06 08:50 AM (71.161.47.230)

While I still believe the wetmop is the culprit...........

I think what it comes down to is cost. As an example, in my kitchen, to put down ceramic tile would have cost upwards of $3000. Labor being the greatest expense, amounting to 2/3 of the cost..... Prep work like taking up the existing linoleum, substraight application etc. Then the actual intsallation of the tile, then grouting, then sealing.

With the Formica brand floor that I installed, even had I contracted for the installation would have been about half for a very similar and more arguably durable product ( I spent about $800 total with new shoe molding). The prep work is basically nill, and once you have the flooring in place, you reintsall the shoe moulding and you're done.

So that said, as is often the case with cheaper solutions, you have to expect some shortcomings. That's why I always advise people to buy the best they can afford and no matter how much you spend, you STILL have to take care of what you have to keep it.

--------------------
Seek the truth. No matter where it lies.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: yayagirl]
      #1041105 - 12/14/06 09:32 AM (71.62.116.81)

just make sure to do a good job with vpor barrier and padding. i run it long up th wall an inch or 2 bathtub the corners. lay thefloor then nail th baseboard over the pad to hold it up on wall. make sure the tape on seams works well tape it twice if need be. some of the new pad has adhesive strips built in to overlapping plastic layers

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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yayagirl
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1041477 - 12/15/06 08:08 AM (70.104.235.16)

Thanks for the insight Im sure when we get to that point Ill have a some questions...

We are putting vinyl in the bathroom. And carpet in one room the rest is pergo ( family room and hallway)


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1spunkygal
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Fait]
      #1041527 - 12/15/06 11:00 AM (4.129.84.184)

True about the wet mop they have sudo-wood looking floors in some of the rooms at the hosp & they are starting to look awful. I would like to meet & talk to the einstein that made that decision. They look pretty for a while but they are starting to puff up. Thanks for this info cause we were considering Pergo in the future,i think we will do more homework on this.

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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: 1spunkygal]
      #1042046 - 12/17/06 06:00 PM (68.110.251.229)

Quote:

True about the wet mop they have sudo-wood looking floors in some of the rooms at the hosp & they are starting to look awful. I would like to meet & talk to the einstein that made that decision. They look pretty for a while but they are starting to puff up.




Like I said, it lasts just long enough for the check to cash and the jackleg to get the hell out of town.

John1315 makes a good point about price - I could see putting it down in a playroom for the kids or something, but for the long term, I'll take the quality every time.
Who wants a floor you can't mop?

And besides the grain not agreeing and the color not matching, what with those little pieces of wood portrayed on the stuff, it looks like someone used up their garbage pile to put in a floor.

A lot of people are not aware of finer points of carpentry like making grain agree from piece to piece and unfortunately there are plenty of jacklegs out there who won't inform them.


The way I look at it is this: there is a limited amount of houses I will work on in my lifetime and I want to make sure each one is done to the best of my ability.
Every bit of work I do has my name and/or logo hidden somewhere and I don't want my name on substandard work.
I am not saying everything I do is perfect, but I gladly take a hit on my pay if it means taking more time to get it right.
My standard is quality first.
If I did a floor that looked like what is pictured on the Pergo I'd be ashamed.
The last deck I did, in order to get quarter-sawn lumber, I ended up driving 30 and 40 miles away to pick through stock.
Yes it took longer and yes it was more expensive and yes the owner was annoyed when it couldn't all be put down at once, but the finished product looks better and will wear better than the alternative.

--------------------
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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1042049 - 12/17/06 06:09 PM (71.62.116.81)

you put quarter sawn on a deck? pt quarter sawn? where'd you find it? is burke still in buisness? or was it smoot?

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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Hurdleguru
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1042276 - 12/18/06 10:36 AM (71.240.225.101)

Quote:


John1315 makes a good point about price - I could see putting it down in a playroom for the kids or something, but for the long term, I'll take the quality every time.
Who wants a floor you can't mop?





Sorry, but you can still mop without drenching the floors. It's not sanitary to use a regular mop over and over, not even talking about the amount of water you are putting on the floors. You can use a Swiffer Wet, their wet mop.


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sosueme
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Hurdleguru]
      #1042300 - 12/18/06 12:45 PM (64.12.116.71)

When my pergo needs cleaned, I don't use the WetJet on it. I dry mop with a Swiffer then put a damp paper towel on it and that's it. Never had to do more than that.

--------------------
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SanMan
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: sosueme]
      #1042302 - 12/18/06 12:54 PM (70.174.157.181)

Quote:

When my pergo needs cleaned, I don't use the WetJet on it. I dry mop with a Swiffer then put a damp paper towel on it and that's it. Never had to do more than that.




Instead of a regular paper towel, try a blue shop paper towel.


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sosueme
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: SanMan]
      #1042315 - 12/18/06 02:13 PM (64.12.116.71)

Quote:

Quote:

When my pergo needs cleaned, I don't use the WetJet on it. I dry mop with a Swiffer then put a damp paper towel on it and that's it. Never had to do more than that.




Then I wouldn't have to keep changin' 'em out, huh?

Instead of a regular paper towel, try a blue shop paper towel.




--------------------
In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move - Douglas Adams


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SanMan
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: sosueme]
      #1042322 - 12/18/06 02:26 PM (70.174.157.181)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

When my pergo needs cleaned, I don't use the WetJet on it. I dry mop with a Swiffer then put a damp paper towel on it and that's it. Never had to do more than that.




Then I wouldn't have to keep changin' 'em out, huh?

Instead of a regular paper towel, try a blue shop paper towel.







The blue shop towels just last a little longer and seem a little more absobent, still need to change them.


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sosueme
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: SanMan]
      #1042341 - 12/18/06 03:19 PM (64.12.116.71)

I just meant as quickly. It takes me 3-4 paper towels to do my office floor.

--------------------
In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move - Douglas Adams


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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Hurdleguru]
      #1042430 - 12/18/06 07:57 PM (63.172.80.159)

Quote:

Quote:


John1315 makes a good point about price - I could see putting it down in a playroom for the kids or something, but for the long term, I'll take the quality every time.
Who wants a floor you can't mop?





Sorry, but you can still mop without drenching the floors. It's not sanitary to use a regular mop over and over, not even talking about the amount of water you are putting on the floors. You can use a Swiffer Wet, their wet mop.




And you have to remember to warn the new homeowners if you sell the house.
And neither you nor the kids may spill anything on it.
Ever.

--------------------
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john1315Moderator
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1042435 - 12/18/06 08:03 PM (71.161.47.230)

MYTH!

We've got two kids and a 120lb rottweiler, we got your spills, your dogpisslobber, your soccer cleats, we use a swiffer all the time, and occasionally a damp mop. No problemo.


PS- Screw the new owners! That's what they get for lowball'n you

--------------------
Seek the truth. No matter where it lies.

Edited by john1315 (12/18/06 08:05 PM)


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1042663 - 12/19/06 06:16 PM (63.172.80.117)

Well, my friend still has a floor that looks crummy.
And like I said, under just the overhead kitchen light at night, it is not noticeable.
It shows up in the afternoon when light comes in through the sliding glass doors going out on the deck.



And I wonder if there are any carpenters out there who put together floors that look like what the Pergo has on it?
Looks like someone used up their scraps.

--------------------
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john1315Moderator
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1042672 - 12/19/06 06:25 PM (71.161.47.230)

I don't know. All wood floors are random unless you find whole lengths that will span the room. The laminates are made to look pieced just like the real thing and only come in the easy to handle lengths. I have seen some Pergo floors that look outstanding.

I think if your friend is as dissatisfied as you are with his floor then he ought to pull that mother up and pony up for the real deal. I would estimate somewhere in the $16-$20 a square foot installed, stained, sealed and urethane.

--------------------
Seek the truth. No matter where it lies.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1042682 - 12/19/06 06:39 PM (71.62.116.81)

aqs opposed to 6- 8 per foot signed sealed and delivered. less if you know the right folks

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1042688 - 12/19/06 06:59 PM (63.172.80.117)

Quote:

I don't know. All wood floors are random unless you find whole lengths that will span the room.




Nearly all have pieces that do not span the whole room, but a good carpenter will take the time to first select and then arrange the pieces so they match up.
See my above comments on material that agrees and matches in color.
One neat thing about it when one gets to laying down good quarter-sawn material is how often the grains will match up at the butt joints.

Sadly, even in very expensive homes, quarter-sawn lumber is not used on floors much anymore.
People just don't know.

It goes to how the log was originally milled.
When you look at the end of most lumber, you'll see the rings of the tree in sort of a rainbow pattern. With quarter-sawn lumber, the grain looks like vertical or nearly vertical stripes.
On the surface of the piece, quarter-sawn lumber has grains that run in straight or nearly straight lines with no knots and with none of the concentric oval shapes and no wide areas of dark or light grains.
Besides being very straight lumber, when it is quarter-sawn, because the dark grains are on edge and the light grains are narrower, the wood will not wear like the other stuff and it will not splinter over time the way the other stuff will.
One commonly finds floors with quarter-sawn tongue-and-groove flooring in houses built as recently as the 1950s around here.

And in the world of carpentry, using those leetle 18-inch pieces is viewed upon as dogass sorry.


Quote:


I think if your friend is as dissatisfied as you are with his floor then he ought to pull that mother up and pony up for the real deal.




Oh he is.
The man is a talented, conscientious carpenter and he hates looking at it.

Right now he's saving quarter-sawn old-growth pine that otherwise would go to the dump to do it with.

If he didn't want the old-growth pine, an option would be to get quarter-sawn tongue-and-groove lumber milled by a cat I know who is pretty good with price.

I like the idea of the Pergo floors, it would be nice if it came in 14 foot lengths and had images of what a quality floor laid with quarter-sawn lumber, and also would withstand getting wet.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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john1315Moderator
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1042702 - 12/19/06 07:41 PM (71.161.47.230)

In a perfect world, I would have solid mahogany but ain't no way Jose'. Reclaimed ain't always a bad way to go. I have a really good friend who is a master carpenter in every respect, who built his own home over here off of Piedmont Dr. He used reclaimed stuff in the rec room, dining room, and great rooms, each in a different pattern. One is in a herringbone, one in a pattern that is 4 intersecting triangles with an inlay in the center that matches cornice work directly above on the ceiling around the chandelier, and one that is atypical. It is stunning and the thought would never enter you mind that it was from a 100 year old house.

--------------------
Seek the truth. No matter where it lies.


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hippydotmom
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1042772 - 12/19/06 11:50 PM (71.62.227.234)

QR

So does anybody wanna diss the parquet that I covet? Go for it. It is inexpensive and has the look I want. I'm not expecting 100 year old oak, but it will look great on my floor, and uses up excess lumber from what I understand. Comments? Diss away.

PS. Pergo sucks. You can spot it a mile away.

--------------------
I heart True_Bob.


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eskieluvr
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: hippydotmom]
      #1042773 - 12/20/06 12:02 AM (71.161.44.49)

Hey. I <3 my pergo. I'd rather have real wood, but we haven't had problem #1 with ours, and Baldy installed it himself.

--------------------
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The Ronald McDonald House of NOVA does not.


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hippydotmom
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: eskieluvr]
      #1042774 - 12/20/06 12:28 AM (71.62.227.234)

Because Baldy is the shiz, silly!

--------------------
I heart True_Bob.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1043102 - 12/20/06 06:16 PM (71.62.116.81)

i'm doing a tile pattern in my kitchen like that

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: john1315]
      #1043142 - 12/20/06 07:45 PM (63.172.80.174)

Quote:

In a perfect world, I would have solid mahogany but ain't no way Jose'. Reclaimed ain't always a bad way to go. I have a really good friend who is a master carpenter in every respect, who built his own home over here off of Piedmont Dr. He used reclaimed stuff in the rec room, dining room, and great rooms, each in a different pattern. One is in a herringbone, one in a pattern that is 4 intersecting triangles with an inlay in the center that matches cornice work directly above on the ceiling around the chandelier, and one that is atypical. It is stunning and the thought would never enter you mind that it was from a 100 year old house.




Sounds cool.
One house I am working on has pretty cool floors on the 3 story addition.
First off, the cat who owns the house was able to intercept a massive oak tree headed for the dump and got two hay-yooge beams out of it, each weighing in around 1,800 pounds as well as plenty of other pieces we used for joists.
It's all exposed, of course.
The floors are t&g 6-inch wide pieces about 1-1/4 inch thick. In the center of the room is a square of butterflyed walnut, about 20 inches on a side and the flooring ripples out from the walnut diamond in the center. The last row where the floorboards get to the walls are stained like the walnut (the pieces of real walnut we had set aside for it had some issues.
It looks really sharp and I tell you, it's mighty challenging because with that pattern, the slightest variation in material magnifies through the work.


Tons of schweet old-growth quarter-sawn pine goes to the dump every day. I hate seeing it get tossed out like that.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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kimcmitch
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1043168 - 12/20/06 08:40 PM (71.240.226.79)

I'll call you when we have the long-needle pines in our yard cut down.

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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: kimcmitch]
      #1057819 - 01/30/07 03:48 PM (63.172.81.125)

Thanks Kim.

Bumpin' this rascal up for UCbatman2...

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1088484 - 03/24/07 12:37 PM (70.183.5.189)

Bumped for Jeepnit.

I recently saw another Pergo floor that looked like the one described in the original post. It had just been put down, and I doubt had been mopped at all.
The sun was almost down and the remaining light was streaming in through bay windows. As the light raked across the floor at a shallow angle, casting sort of a sheen, the outline of each piece of Pergo could be seen.

It's fake, and there's no getting around it.

You want a real wood floor, then get a real wood floor put in.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1122473 - 05/31/07 09:43 PM (63.172.83.18)

Bumped up for willowdawn

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willowdawn
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1123079 - 06/02/07 12:26 PM (71.62.228.90)

Thanks Burqajoint!

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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: eskieluvr]
      #1123144 - 06/02/07 08:29 PM (71.62.116.81)

most often the difficulty wth folks intalling pergoe is they damage the edges by trying to tap it together when its not perfectly flat once the surface is the only truly hard part of the product and the minute damage never goes away only gets worse. hence seeng every seam. its very dfferent than hardwoods to install in that respect and gets lots of folks in trouble. the "bad jobs" though are still smoother than many hardwood floors and one of the things like is t cleans up well i have dog hair issues.its cheaper than carpet and as easy to change out. some patterns of it do look a lot better than others. asthetically you need to pick what you like and screw what some poofta thinks

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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Rumblefrog
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1125849 - 06/09/07 01:14 AM (67.168.196.83)

I would encourage people to look at pre-finished "engineered hardwood" floors rather than laminates. The "engineered hardwoods" are thinner layers of hardwood laminated to a core of unfinished hardwoods or softwoods. They install just like the laminate flooring, and there are even "snap-together / no glue" versions. These floors are real hardwood and thus significantly more attractive than the laminates. They can also be refinished, unlike the laminates.

I installed engineered oak flooring in my dining room, kitchen and entry-way. It's been in about six years now and is still beautiful even though I've done a lousy job of caring for it.

If you want something that is really beautiful and wears like chrome, the solid bamboo floors are great - I think I'm going to put bamboo in my family room along with throw rugs.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Rumblefrog]
      #1125851 - 06/09/07 01:16 AM (71.62.116.81)

one company "tarkett" mafe one of those you can sand and refinish can get t as low as 3 a foot on sale with rebate

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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oharascarlett
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #1244182 - 01/29/08 09:58 PM (71.253.240.160)

I'm a little late in replying but if I were you.............
I'd listen to Burqa.


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gargayle
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: oharascarlett]
      #1247194 - 02/05/08 12:26 PM (72.219.200.101)

Scarlett dear, when it comes to matters home improvement and construction, I would take casandrasdaddy's advise over burqa's.

--------------------
Silence is golden - Duct Tape is Silver!
~~~~(\~~~~


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Gt
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: gargayle]
      #1247256 - 02/05/08 01:36 PM (72.73.20.47)

Ah, the pitfalls of advertising.

--------------------
US Wounded 51,564+84/Dead 6,775+20
Modern "red" state America was created by largess financed by "blue" state taxpayers.


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easyrider
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Gt]
      #1247591 - 02/05/08 10:26 PM (71.62.212.226)

http://www.ifloor.com/articles/wood/woodvswood.html

I found this article very interesting and informative in regards to picking solid hardwood/engineered. I know this was about Pergo but in case you were thinking about going for the 'real' thing. I'm in the thinking process as well although not wanting the Pergo but hardwood.


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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: gargayle]
      #1254496 - 02/20/08 03:46 AM (63.172.83.18)

Quote:

Scarlett dear, when it comes to matters home improvement and construction, I would take casandrasdaddy's advise over burqa's.





That's because you are not a carpenter and thus do not recognize the finer points of the trade I stress and CD does not.

Previously I have caught him here trying to push a jackleg solution to fixing a wall suffering from rehydrated drywall where he advised attaching shower stall tile to sheetrock, instead of Durock.
Not recognizing rehydrated drywall is a fundamental error, and advising someone to try to dry it out and patch the way he did was one of those solutions that only work long enough to get the check cashed and clear out of town.
Being ignorant of the trade, Gargayle you can't be expected to know the gravity of such things.
And being ignorant of my work and my reputation in the historic restoration community, you aren't in a position to judge, are you?


He and I both know I have consistently pushed here for higher standards of construction than he has.


"Engineered" flooring is just another name for plywood with a hardwood veneer.

If one wants a hardwood floor then get a hardwood floor!
Trying to fake it consistently ends up yielding the same sort of results - having to do it over again at a future date.
In my decades in the business a great part of my income has been from going back and fixing shortcuts such as this.

These shortcuts always end up biting one on the ass, typically at the worst of times, too.

--------------------
Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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gargayle
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1254894 - 02/20/08 07:08 PM (72.219.200.101)

Sweetie, don't take it personally. It's just he has done some outstanding work for me, and I have seen the work he has done at other people's homes, so I trust him.

Oh, and just to let you know, I worked construction for several years. I do know what to look for and understand, "the finer points" of the trade.

--------------------
Silence is golden - Duct Tape is Silver!
~~~~(\~~~~


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stringBender
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: gargayle]
      #1255367 - 02/21/08 01:00 PM (65.117.13.210)

QR: I used to be in the HW flooring industry (install/sand & finish). It's a family trade. Engineered flooring is probably the best product on the market. I prefer a sand & finish job over prefinished for a couple of different reasons. 1) It's cheaper. 2) No uneven butt joints. However, there are a lot of shoddy craftsmen in the F'burg area that will give you a crap job. I used to be the guy that the big three (Penmar, Carpet House, Shaw) would call to fix their problems when they couldn't resolve it themselves. I've only seen one repair job on an installation that was not attributed to the floors being installed while the moisture content was too high in either the subfloor or the hardwood itself. On the flip side, the vast majority of the general repairs I've been on were a result of the consumer not being properly educated on how to care for a hardwood floor. A hardwood floor should not be wet mopped, but it can be damp mopped. I do it all the time and I've had floors that have lived over 15 years without need of a re-sand. If you're planning on refinishing a floor, spend the extra 20 - 30 cents per square food and go with a good water based finish. They're harder finishes and their beauty has come leaps and bounds over the past 5 to 7 years.

Pergo is a great product when it's properly installed. It's also one of the hardest flooring products on the market. The stuff is tough as nails. What causes a lot of DIYers to fail with it is the fact that it should be cut with a carbide tip blade. And sparks will fly. Failure to use the proper blade when cutting it may result in chipped end joints. I've installed a handful of them and they look OK, but not like wood to me, but close enough to wood for a lot of consumers.

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Burqajoint
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: gargayle]
      #1257342 - 02/24/08 01:01 AM (63.172.83.18)

Quote:

Sweetie, don't take it personally. It's just he has done some outstanding work for me, and I have seen the work he has done at other people's homes, so I trust him.

Oh, and just to let you know, I worked construction for several years. I do know what to look for and understand, "the finer points" of the trade.




I'm not taking it personally, but professionally.
Sorry, it takes more than several years to get the skills I now have, and nothing you said refutes the points I made.

CD and I also disagreed on the wisdom of using staplers to apply shingles, which is why hundreds of houses lost their roofs during Hurricane Isabel.

I am not saying everything the man says and does is wrong, but I have mentioned specifics here that are below my professional standards, but not his.............. and apparently not yours, either....



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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: stringBender]
      #1257344 - 02/24/08 01:07 AM (63.172.83.18)

String, the patterns I have seen on Pergo floors look like someone raided the scrap dumpster at the landfill.
Further, the colors and grain patterns don't agree, as they do when a good carpenter puts down a floor properly....

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countrybumpkin
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1257345 - 02/24/08 05:14 AM (64.136.27.228)

Can someone tell me how to remove a hundred years of paint and varish.My old house[1924], has had all the floors painted and stained etc.We used a sander to remove the ick on the dining room floor.It took a whole lotta work.Is there an easier way?

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countrybumpkin
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: countrybumpkin]
      #1257346 - 02/24/08 05:15 AM (64.136.27.228)

Oh, forgot to say.The floors are oak.

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stringBender
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: countrybumpkin]
      #1257629 - 02/24/08 01:46 PM (71.63.67.182)

Quote:

Can someone tell me how to remove a hundred years of paint and varish.My old house[1924], has had all the floors painted and stained etc.We used a sander to remove the ick on the dining room floor.It took a whole lotta work.Is there an easier way?




There is no "easy" way to do it. I'll tell you how I do it, but it's not for the faint of heart. I use a 240 lb drum sander that runs on 220. I'll put an old sheet of 2 on (36 grit) and sand cross grain, but be careful. If you don't feather the handle, you'll gouge the floor. Put a new sheet of 2 on and go with the grain.

Fine with 80 then buff the crap out of it with a 100 grit screen.

This only works with a lever type sander. I dont think I'd try it with the teeter totter rental sanders.

As far as the sides and ends, that's a little harder. Try to find some 3 1/2 or 4 grit. I've got some if you can't find any. You'll need to keep the weight on the wheels and off the drum of the edger. You only want to take the paint off with something that grit otherwise you'll seriously mar the wood. Using this method on the edger, you'll have to cut three times. 3 1/2 --> 36 --> 80 or 100 depending on wood. If it's furr or pine, use 80. If it's oak or maple use 100. It's most likely furr or pine at that age.

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~W.C. Fields


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stringBender
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1257633 - 02/24/08 01:57 PM (71.63.67.182)

Quote:

String, the patterns I have seen on Pergo floors look like someone raided the scrap dumpster at the landfill.
Further, the colors and grain patterns don't agree, as they do when a good carpenter puts down a floor properly....




Yeah, like I said, they don't look like wood to me, but a lot of customers will be very happy with it. It's also pretty tough to argue the wearability of the floor.

--------------------
More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol.

~W.C. Fields


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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: stringBender]
      #1257669 - 02/24/08 04:19 PM (63.172.83.18)

Linoleum holds up a long time, too.

Besides being fake (and I happen to frown on fake materials), the image on Pergo is a textbook illustration of precisely how to NOT install a floor.

1) It depicts little bitty scrap pieces of wood rather than the long lengths that should be used, preferably spanning the room.

2) It depicts wood with knots in it.

3) It depicts wood that is sawn normally rather than quarter-sawn, with wide, concentric ovals.

4) It depicts wood whose grain is in opposition, rather than agreement

5) It depicts wood that is not matched to color.


String, I'm with you on sand and finish, too.
My concern with "engineered" flooring is that my experience with laminates of all types have a tendency at some point to delaminate. All kinds of stuff gets spilled on floors, including fingernail polish remover or thinners or other products which may affect the glue holding the layers together.
I noticed you didn't include Carver in your list of flooring outfits.
They used to have a big ole country boy nick-named "Mudhole" working for them. He was the man when it came to running the bigass drum sander - the one that's damned near as big as a lawnmower.

I was working on one of the most historic homes around here and the very genteel older wife in the couple who owned the house came by the jobsite.
She very politely asked, "Excuse me, Mr. Mudhole, but do you mind me asking why they call you "Mudhole?"
He looked up, sighed and just said resignedly, "Ma'am, you rally don't want to know."
She said, "Ohhh."
Then, "Ohhhhhhhh."
Then "Ohhhh-ohhhhhhhh," blushed and walked out while the rest of us bit off chunks of tongue and inner chhek to avoid busting out laughing all over the place....

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stringBender
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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: Burqajoint]
      #1258006 - 02/25/08 09:44 AM (65.117.13.210)

I've never met anyone from Carver's outfit, but I've seen their work on a couple of jobs and it was good. Haven't they been out of it for a while though? I haven't heard the Carver name in flooring around here since about '96.

Yeah, the proof will be in the pudding with the engineered floors. It appears it's going to be good, though. We put down about 1000' in my pop's house about 3 or 4 years ago over concrete. And sanded it. The stuff doesn't move. I hate putting flooring down on mastic, though. It's a royal pain in the ass. I was also a little taken back by the size of the tongue. They are tiny. The floor we put down (the brand is escaping me) is waranteed against twisting or splitting for 10 years.

--------------------
More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol.

~W.C. Fields


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Re: Pergo Floors - Just Say No [Re: stringBender]
      #1258172 - 02/25/08 05:55 PM (63.172.83.18)

I haven't seen anything by Carver in quite a while.

It may not move initially, but my concern is over delamination as well with the "engineered." Just the name "engineered" sounds hinky to me.

I don't do much new construction and specialize in historic restoration. One thing I have seen over and over and over again through the years is things like this tend to backfire. It just looks like a shortcut to me, and I have made beaucoup bucks redoing "shortcuts" someone took...

You gotta get down to see the work done in the new mansion at the Meadow. It's worth the trip and the grand opening will be May 22, a I recall. Maybe it's April 22, I'll check.
I have never seen better work, and it is stunning when you look at the consistency of what was done throughout this hay-yooge house.
I'm geting ahold of the president of the Virginia State Fair today to find out who did the work.
He told me when he took me through there, but I forgot...

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Has Hannity been waterboarded yet?


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