YOUR TOWN:  Caroline | Culpeper | Dahlgren | King George | Fredericksburg | Orange | Spotsylvania | Stafford | Westmoreland   TODAY: 10.30.14 | 


The hot seat >> Religion

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | >> (show all)
Pastafari
Super FUG


Reged: 03/15/10
Posts: 3780
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680818 - 05/02/12 07:18 AM (173.72.158.29)

Quote:

To argue with you further would make me a greater fool.




And yet, here you are, greater fool.

--------------------
"If these guys are in control, then they're doing things right." -Rally2xs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sipowitz
Mega FUG


Reged: 12/08/09
Posts: 8090
Re: Clarification [Re: Pastafari]
      #1680838 - 05/02/12 09:49 AM (140.147.233.105)

Bigotry is as bigotry does.

Clovis must be morbidly obese after how much you guys keep feeding the troll.

Also, not to mention the fact that ignoring the other sins and punishable acts in the Bible is simply asinine. It's because his bigotry blinds him from seeing that religious taboos that have gone extinct have done so because they're no longer relevant. Like these: wearing certain clothes/celebrating different holidays/observing different sabbaths/etc to be able to identify your comrades or combatants; not mixing crops because it could prove to be dangerous to food supplies and soil; and, the "immorality" of homosexuality and masturbation.

When the Bible speaks against those ideas it is because God had given man the order to populate the Earth and reign over its domain. That. Is. Done. Several times over now. That's why it's not longer relevant. So the only people who still hold onto anti-homosexual bigotry are either idiots who can't reason, self-hating homos, or those that actually want their specific religion to dominate over the entire Earth through conversion or elimination.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Clarification [Re: Sipowitz]
      #1680840 - 05/02/12 09:53 AM (155.178.4.10)

I vote "those that actually want their specific religion to dominate over the entire Earth through conversion or elimination". There just can't be that many of the other categories.


Luckily that won't happen, since we atheists are persecuting all of them.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Minx
stranger


Reged: 02/21/07
Posts: 17005
Loc: Stafford
Re: Clarification [Re: True_Bob]
      #1680843 - 05/02/12 10:05 AM (70.42.158.246)

Ah, the Bob and Clovis show has returned for a second season - I was getting worried that I had the wrong channel

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sipowitz
Mega FUG


Reged: 12/08/09
Posts: 8090
Re: Clarification [Re: Minx]
      #1680884 - 05/02/12 01:34 PM (140.147.233.105)



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Clarification [Re: Sipowitz]
      #1680887 - 05/02/12 02:09 PM (50.78.238.93)

Quote:



Also, not to mention the fact that ignoring the other sins and punishable acts in the Bible is simply asinine.




Who's disputing the morality of adultery? Fornication? Stealing? Murder? Lying? I haven't seen or ever heard of an adultery lobbyist. I haven't ever heard of people promoting laws to protect the rights of adulterers.

Sipowitz's comments are off the mark.

I think drunkenness is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because I say alcholism is a disorder?

No.

I think gluttony is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because obesity is a disease?

No.

I think stealing is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot against kleptomaniacs?

No.

The irony in Sipowitz argues that my "bigotry" blinds me. His own left leaning biases blind him from seeing his argument as a fallacy ad fontem, he doesn't address any of the arguments he just calls those who make the argument "blind" by hate.

People keep saying that homosexuals don't hurt anyone one or themselves. This is false.

There is the obvious fact that the gay community is ravaged by STDS. That is a fact.

There is the obvious fact that someone who is gay will never experience the joy of creating a new life with their beloved.

These are just two points of many.

A person's rectum was not designed to take the beating of anal intercourse. It is a biological fact that this type of interaction significantly increases the chances of contracting venereal disease--as does oral sex, because anus bleeds and is suspectible to contracting diseases and infections.

Then take into account the "switch hitters"--bisexuals, who engage in anal intercourse with HIV men, then go on to infect women, who then infect other heterosexual men.

This is a problem, this is an evil. To deny this is stupid.

Then again, stupid is as stupid does.

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
senor
FUG Honcho


Reged: 06/26/07
Posts: 1987
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680888 - 05/02/12 02:16 PM (138.162.8.58)



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680890 - 05/02/12 02:31 PM (155.178.5.10)

Quote:

Quote:



Also, not to mention the fact that ignoring the other sins and punishable acts in the Bible is simply asinine.




Who's disputing the morality of adultery? Fornication? Stealing? Murder? Lying? I haven't seen or ever heard of an adultery lobbyist. I haven't ever heard of people promoting laws to protect the rights of adulterers.




Who indeed? Well, hopefully we'll get to that whole context thing.

Quote:

Sipowitz's comments are off the mark.




Are they? Perhaps if you looked at them. And here we are, as I hinted, to the context part.

From Sip, immediately following, and part of the same paragraph, that which you edited. Pay attention to the highlighted bit:

Quote:

It's because his bigotry blinds him from seeing that religious taboos that have gone extinct have done so because they're no longer relevant. Like these: wearing certain clothes/celebrating different holidays/observing different sabbaths/etc to be able to identify your comrades or combatants; not mixing crops because it could prove to be dangerous to food supplies and soil; and, the "immorality" of homosexuality and masturbation.




Oh, now that helps a lot, to explicitly identify the subject. How did you manage to miss that oh so obvious context? Intentionally, that's how. Do you really think nobody is going to notice your deceptions and dishonesty? Crikey, we have the internet now, nothing ever gets forgotten!

Keep it up. Really. These have been truly hysterical.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Clarification [Re: True_Bob]
      #1680908 - 05/02/12 04:34 PM (50.78.238.93)

Sipowtiz conflates custom (religious garb, celebration of holidays ect.), taboos (Friday the 13th) and morality (Murder is something one ought not do).

THAT is why his argument folds like a cheap umbrella and the reason you're all wet.

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680909 - 05/02/12 05:45 PM (66.87.86.165)

So where is your source that makes homosexuality any more severe a violation than wearing mixed blends or eating shrimp? He got all that from your book. From the same part of the book that actually addresses homosexuality. I think you need to familiarize yourself with it.
Murder we know from the commandments. The commandments have nothing about Teh Gay, so apparently your false witness in this thread alone is a more egregious act than having gay sex (which you might be surprised to learn, isn't all about the anus, despite your fascination).



Keep posting!

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pastafari
Super FUG


Reged: 03/15/10
Posts: 3780
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680913 - 05/02/12 08:52 PM (173.72.158.29)

Quote:

I haven't seen or ever heard of an adultery lobbyist. I haven't ever heard of people promoting laws to protect the rights of adulterers.




Roughly seventeen seconds on google, and I found one.

Quote:

I think drunkenness is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because I say alcholism is a disorder?
I think gluttony is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because obesity is a disease?

No.

I think stealing is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot against kleptomaniacs?

No.





What makes you a bigot is saying that those people who don't subscribe to your particular mythology should have to live by it's rules.

Quote:

People keep saying that homosexuals don't hurt anyone one or themselves. This is false.

There is the obvious fact that the gay community is ravaged by STDS. That is a fact.




1. Sources?
2. The heterosexual community is also "ravaged" by STDs.
3. The female community is "ravaged" by breast cancer (In that females get it more often than males). The black community is "ravaged" by sickle cell. Are any of those groups "immoral" merely because a disease picks on them disproportionately?

Quote:

There is the obvious fact that someone who is gay will never experience the joy of creating a new life with their beloved.




Who are you to say that that experience is something that someone needs, or even wants? Do you also propose that straight people who don't want to have kids also be barred from getting married?

Quote:

These are just two points of many.




Are the rest just as awful?

Quote:

A person's rectum was not designed to take the beating of anal intercourse.




Jesus. Who are you having sex with? Those dudes from Pulp Fiction?

Quote:

It is a biological fact that this type of interaction significantly increases the chances of contracting venereal disease--as does oral sex, because anus bleeds and is suspectible to contracting diseases and infections.




And it's a biological fact that heterosexual intercourse significantly increases the chances of unwanted pregnancy.

Point is, sex has pitfalls, wherever you look. Because their pitfalls are different than your pitfalls, you hate The Other.

Quote:

Then take into account the "switch hitters"--bisexuals, who engage in anal intercourse with HIV men, then go on to infect women, who then infect other heterosexual men.




Are you talking about intentionally infecting people? Because that's a completely different animal.

If you're not, and you're just talking about how diseases are spread, then you're still not making any headway. Unsafe sex is unsafe sex, whoever your partner is. If god sent HIV to kill the gay (Oooh, aren't you just droooooooling over that now...), then why does it infect heterosexual people at all? The fact that diseases spread is not enough to condemn homosexuality.

--------------------
"If these guys are in control, then they're doing things right." -Rally2xs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Clarification [Re: Pastafari]
      #1680928 - 05/03/12 07:58 AM (173.67.240.77)

Quote:

Quote:

I haven't seen or ever heard of an adultery lobbyist. I haven't ever heard of people promoting laws to protect the rights of adulterers.




Roughly seventeen seconds on google, and I found one.





For the record, adultery is not spelled P-O-L-Y-G-A-M-Y.

Quote:

Quote:

I think drunkenness is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because I say alcholism is a disorder?
I think gluttony is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because obesity is a disease?

No.

I think stealing is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot against kleptomaniacs?

No.



What makes you a bigot is saying that those people who don't subscribe to your particular mythology should have to live by it's rules.




According to your line of reasoning, I'm a bigot for supporting and upholding laws used to punish, stealing, murdering and lying.

Good one Pastafari. You're a paragon of moral judgment.

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
StaffordLarry
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 03/11/10
Posts: 5974
Loc: Van Down by the River
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680929 - 05/03/12 08:20 AM (71.117.31.190)

You'd better get all this sorted out, because when the rapture starts, He's only sending ONE angel to kick ass.


--------------------
Just the facts, Mam.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Clarification [Re: StaffordLarry]
      #1680936 - 05/03/12 08:40 AM (50.78.238.93)

Quote:

You'd better get all this sorted out, because when the rapture starts, He's only sending ONE angel to kick ass.





So that is what the angel of death looks like!!

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Clarification [Re: StaffordLarry]
      #1680937 - 05/03/12 08:44 AM (50.78.238.93)



--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680940 - 05/03/12 09:03 AM (155.178.5.10)

Quote:






Yes, you are. Thanks for finally confessing.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680941 - 05/03/12 09:11 AM (155.178.4.10)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I haven't seen or ever heard of an adultery lobbyist. I haven't ever heard of people promoting laws to protect the rights of adulterers.




Roughly seventeen seconds on google, and I found one.





For the record, adultery is not spelled P-O-L-Y-G-A-M-Y.

Quote:

Quote:

I think drunkenness is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because I say alcholism is a disorder?
I think gluttony is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because obesity is a disease?

No.

I think stealing is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot against kleptomaniacs?

No.



What makes you a bigot is saying that those people who don't subscribe to your particular mythology should have to live by it's rules.




According to your line of reasoning, I'm a bigot for supporting and upholding laws used to punish, stealing, murdering and lying.

Good one Pastafari. You're a paragon of moral judgment.




You don't understand reasoning at all. He says you are a bigot for demanding people follow your mythological rules. Those things ("supporting and upholding laws used to punish, stealing, murdering and lying") are not unique to your myth tradition. They are damned common among societies, regardless of their myth traditions. If they were uniquely Christian, you would be correct.

But they aren't, and so you are wrong, and still a bigotduh.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
peabody
Super FUG


Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4919
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
Re: Clarification [Re: True_Bob]
      #1680946 - 05/03/12 09:26 AM (71.246.242.179)

Fredtalk is sorta like a DVR for the Bob, Pasta and Clueless show. You can open it and read it when you don't have anything else to do. What's better is that you can fast forward through Clueless' bigoted posts and see Bob and Pasta trying to use logic against "faith".

Bob and Pasta, my grandpa used to say "arguing with that man is like mud wrestling with a pig. You will never convince him that you won and the pig loves the mud."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Clarification [Re: True_Bob]
      #1680947 - 05/03/12 09:41 AM (50.78.238.93)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I haven't seen or ever heard of an adultery lobbyist. I haven't ever heard of people promoting laws to protect the rights of adulterers.




Roughly seventeen seconds on google, and I found one.





For the record, adultery is not spelled P-O-L-Y-G-A-M-Y.

Quote:

Quote:

I think drunkenness is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because I say alcholism is a disorder?
I think gluttony is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because obesity is a disease?

No.

I think stealing is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot against kleptomaniacs?

No.



What makes you a bigot is saying that those people who don't subscribe to your particular mythology should have to live by it's rules.




According to your line of reasoning, I'm a bigot for supporting and upholding laws used to punish, stealing, murdering and lying.

Good one Pastafari. You're a paragon of moral judgment.




You don't understand reasoning at all. He says you are a bigot for demanding people follow your mythological rules. Those things ("supporting and upholding laws used to punish, stealing, murdering and lying") are not unique to your myth tradition. They are damned common among societies, regardless of their myth traditions. If they were uniquely Christian, you would be correct.

But they aren't, and so you are wrong, and still a bigotduh.




*Sighs*

I agree. Those prohibitions are not unique to Christian religious beliefs, but neither is the prohibition on homosexuality. This is why I have said, this issue is a moral issue not a religious issue. You don't need to be a Christian to see something wrong with that behavior.

So once again you have demonstrated that your left leaning atheist biases seriously impede your ability to think objectively and critically.

Edited by Clovis (05/03/12 09:44 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Clarification [Re: Clovis]
      #1680948 - 05/03/12 10:02 AM (155.178.4.10)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I haven't seen or ever heard of an adultery lobbyist. I haven't ever heard of people promoting laws to protect the rights of adulterers.




Roughly seventeen seconds on google, and I found one.





For the record, adultery is not spelled P-O-L-Y-G-A-M-Y.

Quote:

Quote:

I think drunkenness is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because I say alcholism is a disorder?
I think gluttony is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot because obesity is a disease?

No.

I think stealing is a sin. Does this judgment make me a bigot against kleptomaniacs?

No.



What makes you a bigot is saying that those people who don't subscribe to your particular mythology should have to live by it's rules.




According to your line of reasoning, I'm a bigot for supporting and upholding laws used to punish, stealing, murdering and lying.

Good one Pastafari. You're a paragon of moral judgment.




You don't understand reasoning at all. He says you are a bigot for demanding people follow your mythological rules. Those things ("supporting and upholding laws used to punish, stealing, murdering and lying") are not unique to your myth tradition. They are damned common among societies, regardless of their myth traditions. If they were uniquely Christian, you would be correct.

But they aren't, and so you are wrong, and still a bigotduh.




*Sighs*

"Those things" or better stated, those prohibitions, are not unique to Christian religious beliefs, but neither is the prohibition on homosexuality. This is why I have said, this issue is a moral issue not a religious issue. You don't need to be a Christian to see something wrong with that behavior.

So once again you have demonstrated for everyone here that your left leaning atheist biases seriously impede your ability to think objectively and critically.




HAHAHAHAHA!


Clovis, where do you get your moral guidance from? Can you separate your moral guidance from your religion? Do you get your moral guidance from those other religions and cultures?

No, you don't follow other sources, and you don't separate your morals from your religion - they come from your religion. You have told us as much, repeatedly and vociferously (you aren't/weren't lying, are/were you?). So for you, a moral issue is necessarily a religious issue (despite your misleading words above).
You are a religious bigotry case. You want non-followers of your myth tradition to follow the (not actually existing, in the case of Teh Gay) rules of that myth tradition. It would be like demanding I not boil a kid goat in the milk of its mother. Or that you pray 5 times a day, facing Mecca. There is nothing objective (nor moral - you're suppressing the flourishing of humans) about your vilifaction of Teh Gay or your assertion that traditional 'marriage' (whatever you imagine that to be) is being protected. It's just bigotry. It's yours; own it.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sipowitz
Mega FUG


Reged: 12/08/09
Posts: 8090
Re: Clarification [Re: peabody]
      #1680949 - 05/03/12 10:05 AM (140.147.233.105)

Eh, I would necessarily call him Clueless. His problem is much worse and much scarier than that. He is very hateful and very evil. He has convinced himself to think of some humans as less than humans and we all know how that ends. That's why I put him on ignore so long ago.

He isn't just your average troll looking to get a rise out of people; his speech is the stuff of monsters who are only happy to get more people to listen and attempt to engage them in an endless debate. Think the Westboro Baptists. The greatest blow we could ever deal to them is to stop putting them in the news. Once you start giving people like that more and more attention, you're creating the opportunity for others to listen to vile rhetoric and possibly convince themselves they think the same.

Now the WBC doesn't really have that ability because "God hates fags" isn't something most our population will openly subscribe to. Clovis, unfortunately, can come off as intelligible to much of the population simply because their lack of higher reasoning and poor grasp on English/communication. The day we start giving the next Hitler a podium and an audience is not something I look forward to.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Sipowitz]
      #1681052 - 05/04/12 12:13 PM (50.78.238.93)


Quote:

Eh, I would necessarily call him Clueless. His problem is much worse and much scarier than that. He is very hateful and very evil. He has convinced himself to think of some humans as less than humans and we all know how that ends. That's why I put him on ignore so long ago.




The bold section above is untrue.

I fear Sipowitz's opinion is skewed by the evils his family suffered at the hands of the Nazis for being Jewish. There is probably a great deal of emotional baggage that goes along with this fear. I suspect he, like so many, part of the growing cult of Civil rights junkies (people who enjoyed incredible satisfaction and received an emotional high off of the good work helping African Americans). Not wanting the "party" to end, they look for another battle to fight. So they champion the gay lobbyist movement and believe discrimination against same sex orientation is no different than discrimination against people with Jewish or African heritage. This is the heart of the matter.

Here is the problem with that:

Racists, like the Nazis, believed that people of specific races were inferior to them, based on that wicked belief, it followed they viewed Jews as sub-human, this evil view justified the atrocities they committed.

The Nazis went so far as to claim that Jews were a threat to the state, simply for being Jewish--it didn't matter if they practiced their religion, were involved in politics opposing or supporting the Nazi party, banking etc. Regardless of what Jews did they were persecuted simply for being Jews. This is a clear example of genuine bigotry. It is immoral and highly irrational.

Here is the HUGE distinction many people fail to see.

Being a man or a woman, a Jew or African-American, heterosexual or homosexual makes no difference in your human dignity. Christian morality teaches me that everyone is a child of God and has an inherent human dignity.

The distinction to make is that difference in being a man or a woman, a Jew or African-American and being heterosexual or homosexual is that orientation has something to do with how your mind works. Because the fact of the matter is that the economy of human life is such that a penis and a vagina are organs that give as great satisfaction precisely so that we will procreate. But something happens between the ears that causes some people to desire same sex partners.

Being gay means you have a motivation to ACT in a manner that is widely understood to be abnormal human behavior. This is the first contact that leads people to call this orientation a disorder.

What new evidence or data warrants altering something that appears to be self-evident. Seeing a guy act like a girl and talk like a girl or seeing a girl talk and act like a guy for all intents and purposes appears to be disordered. It's self-evident.

I believe same sex attraction is a product of a disorder which derives from some mental, psychological, emotional, physical or spiritual issue. This belief doesn't change my view that they are less human or less valuable to society, but that

1) there orientation derives from something broken in them.

2) homosexual acts are immoral.

We should not hate anyone PERIOD. And I do not advocate hating people. I do not see how expressing a genuine concern over a harmful behavior is hateful.

Sipowitz is chirping in harmony with the rest of the left-wing bird-brains who feign being compassionate, tolerant and reasonable, but his actions are anything but compassionate, tolerant and reasonable. If I were a Westboro Baptist saying things like, "God hates fags." He'd have a case. But I'm not saying, thinking, or condoning this type of conduct.

My judgment does not diminish a gay person's intrinsic value in any way, anymore than alcoholism, diminishes the value of an alcoholic.

But moment people demand society accept a behavior that has been considered and is considered abnormal, then people are going to voice their opinion.

I understand that homosexuals struggle with their orientation, that they're bullied, that they are burdened with shame and made to feel guilty for something many cannot help. There has been little compassion for them in their own religions. That is wrong.

However, I don't think the coarse manner in which homosexuals have been treated by some, does not warrant all of a sudden pretending it is normal and healthy behavior.

I believe a great many things are immoral: fornication, adultery, polygamy, threesomes etc. The difference is no one is telling Christians that they are being evil for opposing these things.

Sipowitz is grossly mistaken about what I believe. Instead of engaging a discussion about the topic, he is speaking falsely.

I believe what I believe for what I see are valid and sound reasons. I am open to the possibility that I could be wrong. It's unfortunate there is no one reasonable enough to have that kind of discussion.

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Clovis]
      #1681058 - 05/04/12 01:04 PM (155.178.5.10)

Quote:


Quote:

Eh, I would necessarily call him Clueless. His problem is much worse and much scarier than that. He is very hateful and very evil. He has convinced himself to think of some humans as less than humans and we all know how that ends. That's why I put him on ignore so long ago.




The bold section above is untrue.




We have an excellent basis in your past remarks to consider this true. Until you have shown you have reformed, there is no reason to believe you have changed your thinking. A simple declaration on your part carries very little weight in that regard.

Quote:

I fear Sipowitz's opinion is skewed by the evils his family suffered at the hands of the Nazis for being Jewish. There is probably a great deal of emotional baggage that goes along with this fear.




Where do you get your detailed information? More of your imaginary clairvoyance?

Quote:

I suspect he, like so many, part of the growing cult of Civil rights junkies (people who enjoyed incredible satisfaction and received an emotional high off of the good work helping African Americans). Not wanting the "party" to end, they look for another battle to fight. So they champion the gay lobbyist movement and believe discrimination against same sex orientation is no different than discrimination against people with Jewish or African heritage. This is the heart of the matter.




Misunderstanding those you disagree with will get you nowhere. The heart of this matter is that your church (and many others) use ancient superstitions to jsutify their irrational bigotry.

Quote:

Here is the problem with that:

Racists, like the Nazis, believed that people of specific races were inferior to them, based on that wicked belief, it followed they viewed Jews as sub-human, this evil view justified the atrocities they committed.

The Nazis went so far as to claim that Jews were a threat to the state, simply for being Jewish--it didn't matter if they practiced their religion, were involved in politics opposing or supporting the Nazi party, banking etc. Regardless of what Jews did they were persecuted simply for being Jews. This is a clear example of genuine bigotry. It is immoral and highly irrational.

Here is the HUGE distinction many people fail to see.

Being a man or a woman, a Jew or African-American, heterosexual or homosexual makes no difference in your human dignity. Christian morality teaches me that everyone is a child of God and has an inherent human dignity.




Except for some of us...

Quote:

The distinction to make is that difference in being a man or a woman, a Jew or African-American and being heterosexual or homosexual is that orientation has something to do with how your mind works. Because the fact of the matter is that the economy of human life is such that a penis and a vagina are organs that give as great satisfaction precisely so that we will procreate.




Really? I don't think you have much experience with vaginas if that's your thinking- or do you mean that a penis and vagina will provide a MAN pleasure so HE will procreate? Find the man in the boat. And he isn't involved in procreation, he is the female analog to the glans.

Quote:

But something happens between the ears that causes some people to desire same sex partners.

Being gay means you have a motivation to ACT in a manner that is widely understood to be abnormal human behavior.




Assumption by an unqualified individual. Being gay means you have an attraction to same gedered people. Claiming that something is so because it is "widely understood" is a logical fallacy, remember? I bet you can even recall what it's called.

Quote:

This is the first contact that leads people to call this orientation a disorder.




Stop bandying that word around so loosely. It has a discipline-specific meaning when we are discussing what happens between the ears. And by that definition, homosexuality is not a disorder. Do you need a hint?

Quote:

What new evidence or data warrants altering something that appears to be self-evident.




To alter what appears self-evident? Any objective evidence at all. Posing that question wrt what "appears self-evident" tells me you don't understand what "evidence" means.

Quote:

Seeing a guy act like a girl and talk like a girl or seeing a girl talk and act like a guy for all intents and purposes appears to be disordered. It's self-evident.




But that isn't actual evidence, it's lay opinion, and the actions described aren't homosexuality, either. More surprising ignorance from you.

Quote:

I believe same sex attraction is a product of a disorder which derives from some mental, psychological, emotional, physical or spiritual issue.




Well you are grievously wrong. You can possibly correct your ignorance if you research the word "disorder" for this context.

Quote:

This belief doesn't change my view that they are less human or less valuable to society, but that




Nice. How soon until you backpedal with a hidden edit?

Quote:

1) there orientation derives from something broken in them.




That is your erroneous lay opinion. You are ignorant of modern day thinking. You probably have it nailed for Bronze Age thinking, though, so you got that going for you.

Quote:

2) homosexual acts are immoral.




And where do you get that from? What universal unchanging set of morals (no relativism, remember) tells you that explicitly? None.

Quote:

We should not hate anyone PERIOD. And I do not advocate hating people. I do not see how expressing a genuine concern over a harmful behavior is hateful.




Of course you don't. You have to hold yourself harmless, and imagine you are merely "expressing a concern". Those who you are so concerned about call it "presecution". And, you have yet to show harm.

Quote:

Sipowitz is chirping in harmony with the rest of the left-wing bird-brains who feign being compassionate, tolerant and reasonable, but his actions are anything but compassionate, tolerant and reasonable. If I were a Westboro Baptist saying things like, "God hates fags." He'd have a case. But I'm not saying, thinking, or condoning this type of conduct.




So what are you saying? That expressing his concerns about your church's harmful behaviors is hateful?

Quote:

My judgment does not diminish a gay person's intrinsic value in any way, anymore than alcoholism, diminishes the value of an alcoholic.




Thanks for judging. It's natural, we all do it, we all need to.

Quote:

But moment people demand society accept a behavior that has been considered and is considered abnormal, then people are going to voice their opinion.




Being Catholic was considered abnormal. Get it?

Quote:

I understand that homosexuals struggle with their orientation, that they're bullied, that they are burdened with shame and made to feel guilty for something many cannot help. There has been little compassion for them in their own religions. That is wrong.




Making a nice flat value statement is great. Adding a qualifier pisses it all away:

Quote:

However, I don't think the coarse manner in which homosexuals have been treated by some, does not warrant all of a sudden pretending it is normal and healthy behavior.




Your opinion. What makes your opinion so much more important than the opinions of actual gay people? Because they (and some cery important others) disagree with you heartily, and would probably find that insulting and presumptuous.

Quote:

I believe a great many things are immoral:




Of course you do, you're an indoctrinated Catholicduh.

Quote:

fornication, adultery, polygamy, threesomes etc. The difference is no one is telling Christians that they are being evil for opposing these things.




Oh, sorry for the oversight. Religious people are evil when they oppose the very concept that consenting adults should decide their own personal bedroom behaviors (among consenting adults). Feel better now?

Quote:

Sipowitz is grossly mistaken about what I believe.




I reckon that's reciprocated with your offensive conjectures at the start, above.

Quote:

Instead of engaging a discussion about the topic, he is speaking falsely.




What facts do you have to back up what you wrote at the top about Sip?

Quote:

I believe what I believe for what I see are valid and sound reasons.




What are they? Because if they come from your 1000+ year old book, they are not sound, nor valid. Humanity understands iteself a lot better than it did when menstruating women were banned from pleasant company. Likewise, your opinions are unsound and invalid if you base your opinion on popularity, as you implied earlier.

Quote:

I am open to the possibility that I could be wrong.




God'll get you for that!

Quote:

It's unfortunate there is no one reasonable enough to have that kind of discussion.




Bigots get so little respect, I tell ya.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pastafari
Super FUG


Reged: 03/15/10
Posts: 3780
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Clovis]
      #1681060 - 05/04/12 01:28 PM (173.72.158.29)

Quote:

The Nazis went so far as to claim that Jews were a threat to the state, simply for being Jewish--it didn't matter if they practiced their religion, were involved in politics opposing or supporting the Nazi party, banking etc. Regardless of what Jews did they were persecuted simply for being Jews. This is a clear example of genuine bigotry. It is immoral and highly irrational.




The christians go so far as to claim that gays are a threat to their marriages, simply for being gay-- it doesn't matter if they practiced their homosexuality, were involved in politics opposing or supporting the republican party, fashion, etc. Regardless of what the gays do, they are persecuted simply for being gay. This is a clear example of genuine bigotry. It is immoral and highly irrational.

--------------------
"If these guys are in control, then they're doing things right." -Rally2xs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Pastafari]
      #1681064 - 05/04/12 01:34 PM (155.178.4.10)

Wish I had thought of that.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sipowitz
Mega FUG


Reged: 12/08/09
Posts: 8090
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: True_Bob]
      #1681066 - 05/04/12 01:40 PM (140.147.233.105)

I'm just glad that I finally know I'm Jewish. Although, I always thought I'd end up being a Buddhist, possibly Taoist. Oh well.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Sipowitz]
      #1681073 - 05/04/12 02:58 PM (155.178.6.10)

Apparently you Jews can get the overall message. Not everyone does, if you see who might be missing from that request for basic human consideration. Why some groups don't want humans to flourish is beyond me.

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
senor
FUG Honcho


Reged: 06/26/07
Posts: 1987
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: True_Bob]
      #1681074 - 05/04/12 03:02 PM (138.162.8.58)

Well he almost reached a rational point saying how morality is based on actions and not thoughtcrime. However I can't get past the other points about angry tearing anal sex and threesomes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Clovis]
      #1681085 - 05/04/12 05:01 PM (50.78.238.93)

Here are some of the tragic aspects of same sex activity:

1 in 5 gay and bisexual men are infected with AIDS.


STD epidemic among male homosexuals.

This is not normal and healthy.

Senor, here is another thought to ponder:

Gay Bowel Syndrome.

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
True_Bob
FUGmaster Flash


Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 20303
Loc: Fredericksburg
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Clovis]
      #1681086 - 05/04/12 06:55 PM (66.87.104.120)

Quote:

Here are some of the tragic aspects of same sex activity:

1 in 5 gay and bisexual men are infected with AIDS.


STD epidemic among male homosexuals.

This is not normal and healthy.

Senor, here is another thought to ponder:

Gay Bowel Syndrome.




It is also not unique to homosexuals. Not every penetrated male anus is penetrated by another male. And here's another shocker - straight married couples indulge in such self destructive yet consensual behavior. Again, not that it's any of your business, Nanny Clovis, to protect consenting adults from what they consent to. And so let's protect the public health - to prevent the spread of disease, no person of any gender may choose a commited relationship with another person.

Keep on posting!

--------------------
Have you the brain worms?!?!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pastafari
Super FUG


Reged: 03/15/10
Posts: 3780
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Clovis]
      #1681087 - 05/04/12 09:15 PM (173.72.158.29)

Quote:

Here are some of the tragic aspects of same sex activity:

1 in 5 gay and bisexual men are infected with AIDS.


STD epidemic among male homosexuals.

This is not normal and healthy.

Senor, here is another thought to ponder:

Gay Bowel Syndrome.




Have you been taking logic lessons from CDaddy?

--------------------
"If these guys are in control, then they're doing things right." -Rally2xs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
senor
FUG Honcho


Reged: 06/26/07
Posts: 1987
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Pastafari]
      #1681095 - 05/05/12 08:46 AM (71.171.126.111)

If his point was to lead me to reports of how that term is outdated and is a red flag to identify antigay bigots then he has succeeded.

If things that cause physical harm are immoral, is getting a bad sunburn immoral? What about eating a cheeseburger? Not getting vaccinated? Believing in things without evidence?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: True_Bob]
      #1681096 - 05/05/12 08:49 AM (50.78.238.93)

Quote:

Quote:

Here are some of the tragic aspects of same sex activity:

1 in 5 gay and bisexual men are infected with AIDS.


STD epidemic among male homosexuals.

This is not normal and healthy.

Senor, here is another thought to ponder:

Gay Bowel Syndrome.




It is also not unique to homosexuals. Not every penetrated male anus is penetrated by another male. And here's another shocker - straight married couples indulge in such self destructive yet consensual behavior.

Keep on posting!




Bob, thank you for supporting my point. Indeed anal sex is harmful to anyone who engages in it. This is why it is deemed immoral.

Quote:

Again, not that it's any of your business, Nanny Clovis, to protect consenting adults from what they consent to.




Again, you're not thinking clearly.

What people do in the privacy of their homes is their business. But your "nanny" comment is irrelevant, because 1) Someone else started this thread to criticize the "Church" for its stance on homosexuality, with shoddy, irrational and irrelevant arguments, 2) Redefining marriage to allow same sex people to marry is a public issue.

So please, if you're going to post, try to add to the discussion with thoughtful remarks.

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Clovis
Mystical FUG Sage


Reged: 02/06/10
Posts: 5311
Loc: North of the James
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: senor]
      #1681143 - 05/06/12 03:36 PM (173.67.240.193)

Quote:

If his point was to lead me to reports of how that term is outdated and is a red flag to identify antigay bigots then he has succeeded.

If things that cause physical harm are immoral, is getting a bad sunburn immoral? What about eating a cheeseburger? Not getting vaccinated? Believing in things without evidence?




I think contracting AIDs is a tad more serious than getting a bad sun burn.

The Center for Disease Control's finding that men who have sex with men (who represent 2% of the population), make up around 50% of new cases infected with HIV.

--------------------
Clovis: "nothing in this world is more valuable than a human being."

BBC's rebuttal: "Defend your empty claim."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Palehorse
Mega FUG


Reged: 05/12/03
Posts: 9353
Loc: Tone
Re: Regarding Bigotry [Re: Clovis]
      #1681150 - 05/07/12 06:00 AM (65.210.63.19)

It is nice to see you posting your calm, genuine, reasoned opinion. I disagree with some of your points, but not everyone agrees with everything anyone else says.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 1 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  FredTalkMod, john1315 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 16320

Rate this topic

Jump to

E-Mail the FredTalk Admins | Privacy statement (Site Rules and User Agreement) Go to fredericksburg.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5



Fredericksburg.com, 616 Amelia Street, Fredericksburg, VA 22401
Copyright 2013, The Free Lance-Star Publishing Co. of Fredericksburg, Va.