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MF
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Pissssssing on the Taliban.....
      #1671404 - 01/12/12 09:58 PM (24.125.216.213)

Sounds like the name of a new song...but are these guys this stupid????

they should have dumped on them and then take the picture,,,,



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john1315Moderator
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: MF]
      #1671407 - 01/12/12 11:24 PM (71.161.58.250)

Bad form at best and some kind of mental illness at worst. Don't really see any wisdom, let alone a point, in it.

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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet".~ Abraham Lincoln


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buffcajun
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: MF]
      #1671423 - 01/13/12 08:49 AM (70.168.109.189)

Piss on them every chance you get, my fellow Marines.

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soldbyme
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: MF]
      #1671428 - 01/13/12 09:17 AM (50.77.78.30)

This got quite the discussion in the office. I agree it shows a total lack of respect and it fuels the fire that the US is full of egotistical, crude, vulgar people. The soldiers should be booted out.

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dadster3
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: MF]
      #1671432 - 01/13/12 09:53 AM (72.196.222.123)

To whom are you referring as "these guys"? The Pentagon "these" who condemn the act, or "these" Marines who are alleged to have committed it?

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buffcajun
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: soldbyme]
      #1671438 - 01/13/12 10:29 AM (70.168.109.189)

Quote:

This got quite the discussion in the office. I agree it shows a total lack of respect and it fuels the fire that the US is full of egotistical, crude, vulgar people. The soldiers should be booted out.




Lack of respect? Respect ends when the enemy puts you in the crosshairs and pulls the trigger.

The only thing they may be guilty of is urinating in public.

The Geneva Convention doesn't protect corpses from getting pissed on. At least they weren't cutting off ears, taking gold teeth, etc.

They also deserved to be called what they are...Marines, not Soldiers.

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Diplomacy: Saying 'nice doggy'... until you find a rock.


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rally2xs
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: MF]
      #1671440 - 01/13/12 10:32 AM (74.214.54.188)

What's idiotic about wrongdoers everywhere is that they're all idiot enough to film themselves doing it. Generally makes the police's job easier.

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Minx
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: buffcajun]
      #1671444 - 01/13/12 10:52 AM (69.194.141.69)

So since it's just piss, it's okay for the Taliban to piss on our dead soldiers too, right?

We should be above such petty actions, and those Marines should be ashamed of themselves.


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buffcajun
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: Minx]
      #1671447 - 01/13/12 11:31 AM (70.168.109.189)

Quote:

So since it's just piss, it's okay for the Taliban to piss on our dead soldiers too, right?




You know they do it too. I'm just not sure if they do it before or after the beheading.

Quote:

We should be above such petty actions, and those Marines should be ashamed of themselves.




Its easy for people to say that while they sit there playing on the internet and drinking a $9.00 Starbucks coffee, or watching the game on their 83 inch tv while texting their buddy on their new iphone and slowly killing themselves by stuffing fatty food into their faces and then bitching because their healthcare plan doesn't cover 100% of gastric bypass or unclogging arteries, however Viagra is covered so their dick will work...but what to do since the pill isn't covered...oh that's right...abortion is legal because they don't want to use condoms on their newly hardened attribute. Meanwhile, their daughter is locked in her room skyping her tits, and junior is out at Wawa buying peach flavored blunts for his doobage.
The closest most armchair quarterbacks get to war stress is buying a new surround system because last year's model just doesn't quite capture the sound of the bullets whizzing by while watching Saving Private Ryan.....but hey, that's the American way, right?


I'm sorry, who should be ashamed?

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Minx
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: buffcajun]
      #1671449 - 01/13/12 11:51 AM (69.194.141.69)

You really need to lay off whatever drugs you're on today.

Just because the other side might do it, doesn't automatically make it right. Since the Taliban disrespects our dead, should we stoop to their level? I would suspect that the majority of soldiers, Marine or otherwise would say not.


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buffcajun
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: Minx]
      #1671454 - 01/13/12 12:38 PM (70.168.109.189)

Look, this goes so much deeper than just simply pissing on a body. It is not in most people's nature to take a life. It is ingrained in us from our earliest learning days that killing another person is wrong.

In war, neither side has ever met. They have done nothing personally to each other. Each side is basically defending the same thing...their Country, their families, their lives. But they either have to kill or be killed. Someone has to be first up that hill and that takes more than courage. That takes making the other side "easier to kill". You have to see them as the most evil and lowest form of life. You have to degrade and dehumanize them...make up mocking names and jokes about them. Its a survival instinct and can't be turned off just like that because now its time to be nice after you've done your job. You haven't killed the nice guy who's a well liked street food vendor in his country with a wife and three kids...in your mind, you just killed the boogeyman.

Every war movie out there shows this behavior time and time again...but that's ok.

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soldbyme
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: buffcajun]
      #1671456 - 01/13/12 12:54 PM (72.82.64.32)

Quote:

Quote:

This got quite the discussion in the office. I agree it shows a total lack of respect and it fuels the fire that the US is full of egotistical, crude, vulgar people. The soldiers should be booted out.




Lack of respect? Respect ends when the enemy puts you in the crosshairs and pulls the trigger.

The only thing they may be guilty of is urinating in public.

The Geneva Convention doesn't protect corpses from getting pissed on. At least they weren't cutting off ears, taking gold teeth, etc.

They also deserved to be called what they are...Marines, not Soldiers.




You have the right to feel however you want. I think the mindset of urinating on a dead human is amoral. These marines represented the united states of america and should have had self control. Yes, the taliban beheaded an american soldier, two wrongs don't make a right. Why lower to their level.
These marines should be punished.

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buffcajun
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: soldbyme]
      #1671459 - 01/13/12 01:21 PM (70.168.109.189)

A quote by Kurtz in Apocalypse Now...

"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write 'f*ck' on their airplanes because it's obscene!"

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Diplomacy: Saying 'nice doggy'... until you find a rock.


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StaffordLarry
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: buffcajun]
      #1671465 - 01/13/12 01:53 PM (71.163.243.108)

Hard to judge 10 seconds of a person's life. I don't think this is the way we want to go as Americans. These Marines are Americans, too. I have to think if a foreign nation ( the US) invaded my country and for whatever reason was given, continued to occupy and control daily life, and did this to people living here how I would feel. I might judge them all by this one event.

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True_Bob
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: buffcajun]
      #1671744 - 01/17/12 09:54 AM (155.178.6.10)

From Geneva I

Quote:

Parties to the conflict shall ensure that burial or cremation of the dead, carried out individually as far as circumstances permit, is preceded by a careful examination, if possible by a medical examination, of the bodies, with a view to confirming death, establishing identity and enabling a report to be made. One half of the double identity disc, or the identity disc itself if it is a single disc, should remain on the body.
Bodies shall not be cremated except for imperative reasons of hygiene or for motives based on the religion of the deceased. In case of cremation, the circumstances and reasons for cremation shall be stated in detail in the death certificate or on the authenticated list of the dead.
They shall further ensure that the dead are honourably interred, if possible according to the rites of the religion to which they belonged, that their graves are respected, grouped if possible according to the nationality of the deceased, properly maintained and marked so that they may always be found. For this purpose, they shall organize at the commencement of hostilities an Official Graves Registration Service, to allow subsequent exhumations and to ensure the identification of bodies, whatever the site of the graves, and the possible transportation to the home country. These provisions shall likewise apply to the ashes, which shall be kept by the Graves Registration Service until proper disposal thereof in accordance with the wishes of the home country.
As soon as circumstances permit, and at latest at the end of hostilities, these Services shall exchange, through the Information Bureau mentioned in the second paragraph of Article 16, lists showing the exact location and markings of the graves together with particulars of the dead interred therein.




From Geneva II:

Quote:

Art 18. After each engagement, Parties to the conflict shall, without delay, take all possible measures to search for and collect the shipwrecked, wounded and sick, to protect them against pillage and ill-treatment, to ensure their adequate care, and to search for the dead and prevent their being despoiled.




Now even if you disagree with our laws (that whole treaty thing), those American Marines are killing other American Marines. Thanks, idiots. For 10 seconds of macho bravado, you murdered some other American/s.

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rally2xs
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: True_Bob]
      #1671763 - 01/17/12 12:25 PM (74.214.54.188)

How big of a deal is it, really? In Viet Nam, our soldiers routinely cut off the ears of dead enemy for body count verification. They would sometimes wear them as necklaces. Seems to make this rather tame by comparison.

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Liberalism is an ideology based on envy, resentment, hatred, and self-hatred - "America" - Dinesh D'Souza


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True_Bob
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: rally2xs]
      #1671768 - 01/17/12 01:15 PM (155.178.5.10)

Quote:

How big of a deal is it, really? In Viet Nam, our soldiers routinely cut off the ears of dead enemy for body count verification. They would sometimes wear them as necklaces. Seems to make this rather tame by comparison.




You're right, it's no big deal at all - unless you're the next dead Marine. It's a recruitment tool for our enemies - just like Abu Ghraib was. This sort of thing increases the sway of our enemies, and we should be trying to minimize their hegemony.




Now about that Viet Nam thing - how did that work out for us?

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rally2xs
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: True_Bob]
      #1671773 - 01/17/12 01:39 PM (74.214.54.188)

Quote:

Quote:

How big of a deal is it, really? In Viet Nam, our soldiers routinely cut off the ears of dead enemy for body count verification. They would sometimes wear them as necklaces. Seems to make this rather tame by comparison.




You're right, it's no big deal at all - unless you're the next dead Marine. It's a recruitment tool for our enemies - just like Abu Ghraib was. This sort of thing increases the sway of our enemies, and we should be trying to minimize their hegemony.




Its not a big deal. Bust 'em to private, make 'em work back up thru the ranks if they want to make a career. But I wouldn't discharge 'em, or jail 'em. After all, nobody was tortured, or unnecessarily killed, etc. They actually harmed no one. Its just a bit disgusting is all, and against the rules.

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Liberalism is an ideology based on envy, resentment, hatred, and self-hatred - "America" - Dinesh D'Souza


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True_Bob
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: rally2xs]
      #1671777 - 01/17/12 02:12 PM (155.178.4.10)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

How big of a deal is it, really? In Viet Nam, our soldiers routinely cut off the ears of dead enemy for body count verification. They would sometimes wear them as necklaces. Seems to make this rather tame by comparison.




You're right, it's no big deal at all - unless you're the next dead Marine. It's a recruitment tool for our enemies - just like Abu Ghraib was. This sort of thing increases the sway of our enemies, and we should be trying to minimize their hegemony.




Its not a big deal. Bust 'em to private, make 'em work back up thru the ranks if they want to make a career. But I wouldn't discharge 'em, or jail 'em. After all, nobody was tortured, or unnecessarily killed, etc. They actually harmed no one. Its just a bit disgusting is all, and against the rules.




It's as if you have no idea why those rules exist, and have never heard the term "blowback".



PS If it's just a bit disgusting, you don't mind Taliban pissing on dead Americans then, right? No big deal, nobody gets hurt, just a bit disgusting.

PPS Nobody has been killed yet, that we know of. If one more Afghani joins the fight on the side of the Taliban, that's one more too many. How many new recruits do you want for the Taliban?

PPPS How did that Viet Nam thing work out? It must've been a great success, if they were defiling bodies for war souvenirs.

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True_Bob
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: True_Bob]
      #1672435 - 01/22/12 08:48 PM (66.87.106.3)

And so we have this:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/22/af...-marines-video/

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kracer55
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: MF]
      #1673116 - 01/30/12 08:09 AM (140.183.63.33)

The only thing they did wrong was to film it.

If WW2 was fought today as pussified as this country has become this would be written in German or Japanese

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A liberal is a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet.


Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.


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True_Bob
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: kracer55]
      #1673117 - 01/30/12 08:14 AM (155.178.4.10)

Eeeeeeyyyoooooowwwmmmmm

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kracer55
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Re: Pissssssing on the Taliban..... [Re: True_Bob]
      #1673147 - 01/30/12 03:25 PM (140.183.63.33)

Peanut...
Did you duck?

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A liberal is a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet.


Political Correctness - the belief that one can pick up a turd by the clean end.


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True_Bob
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Winning [Re: kracer55]
      #1675659 - 02/23/12 11:20 AM (155.178.4.10)

hearts and minds.


Sucks to be an occupying army. Nobody appreciates it.

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StaffordLarry
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Re: Winning [Re: True_Bob]
      #1675669 - 02/23/12 02:09 PM (71.163.243.108)

Some things are forever, and I think extended war is one of them. The longer the war, and atrocities, continue, the greater they need to be to be effective. When Patton crossed the Rhine into Germany, he led his armor across, and stopped the entire column so he could piss into the Rhine, marking his territory. Well advised,maybe not, but probably as offensive and counterproductive as anything we've done lately. You can't keep troops over there for 5 tours and not expect some aberration. That's what it is, aberration.

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True_Bob
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Re: Winning [Re: StaffordLarry]
      #1675671 - 02/23/12 02:25 PM (155.178.6.10)

Seems to be getting less aberrant and more routine. Either way, it's stupid that our soldiers are dying for lame assed symbolic offenses.

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StaffordLarry
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Re: Winning [Re: True_Bob]
      #1675675 - 02/23/12 02:51 PM (71.163.243.108)

I can't disagree, I hope this is not the norm. Ms Cajun hit on a truth when she said that it's not in our nature to kill without remorse, this has to addressed, taught and reinforced in basic and later training. It requires the enemy to be dehumanized to an extent, and we are now seeing it appear in our media. Dehumanize and distribute our "enemy" among the civilian populace, raise the price of gasoline ( with related cascade effects), whip the flag a few times, and stand by. It's worked well 'til now.

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True_Bob
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Re: Winning [Re: StaffordLarry]
      #1675690 - 02/23/12 06:22 PM (66.87.85.37)

War Is A Racket. USMC Gen (ret) Smedley Butler. His short book still applies.



I forget his precise rank. Sorry Smedley.

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StaffordLarry
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Re: Winning [Re: True_Bob]
      #1675709 - 02/24/12 08:01 AM (71.163.243.108)

He was a Marine General and a genuine war hero. He was also approached in a plot by the DuPonts and other war profiteers to lead a coup against Roosevelt in 1933, which failed when Butler went public. Here's a short brief:

THE BUSINESS PLOT TO OVERTHROW ROOSEVELT
In the summer of 1933, shortly after Roosevelt's "First 100 Days," America's richest businessmen were in a panic. It was clear that Roosevelt intended to conduct a massive redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor. Roosevelt had to be stopped at all costs.

The answer was a military coup. It was to be secretly financed and organized by leading officers of the Morgan and Du Pont empires. This included some of America's richest and most famous names of the time:

Irenee Du Pont - Right-wing chemical industrialist and founder of the American Liberty League, the organization assigned to execute the plot.
Grayson Murphy - Director of Goodyear, Bethlehem Steel and a group of J.P. Morgan banks.
William Doyle - Former state commander of the American Legion and a central plotter of the coup.
John Davis - Former Democratic presidential candidate and a senior attorney for J.P. Morgan.
Al Smith - Roosevelt's bitter political foe from New York. Smith was a former governor of New York and a codirector of the American Liberty League.
John J. Raskob - A high-ranking Du Pont officer and a former chairman of the Democratic Party. In later decades, Raskob would become a "Knight of Malta," a Roman Catholic Religious Order with a high percentage of CIA spies, including CIA Directors William Casey, William Colby and John McCone.
Robert Clark - One of Wall Street's richest bankers and stockbrokers.
Gerald MacGuire - Bond salesman for Clark, and a former commander of the Connecticut American Legion. MacGuire was the key recruiter to General Butler.
The plotters attempted to recruit General Smedley Butler to lead the coup. They selected him because he was a war hero who was popular with the troops. The plotters felt his good reputation was important to make the troops feel confident that they were doing the right thing by overthrowing a democratically elected president. However, this was a mistake: Butler was popular with the troops because he identified with them. That is, he was a man of the people, not the elite. When the plotters approached General Butler with their proposal to lead the coup, he pretended to go along with the plan at first, secretly deciding to betray it to Congress at the right moment.

What the businessmen proposed was dramatic: they wanted General Butler to deliver an ultimatum to Roosevelt. Roosevelt would pretend to become sick and incapacitated from his polio, and allow a newly created cabinet officer, a "Secretary of General Affairs," to run things in his stead. The secretary, of course, would be carrying out the orders of Wall Street. If Roosevelt refused, then General Butler would force him out with an army of 500,000 war veterans from the American Legion. But MacGuire assured Butler the cover story would work:
"You know the American people will swallow that. We have got the newspapers. We will start a campaign that the President's health is failing. Everyone can tell that by looking at him, and the dumb American people will fall for it in a second…"
The businessmen also promised that money was no object: Clark told Butler that he would spend half his $60 million fortune to save the other half.

And what type of government would replace Roosevelt's New Deal? MacGuire was perfectly candid to Paul French, a reporter friend of General Butler's:
"We need a fascist government in this country… to save the nation from the communists who want to tear it down and wreck all that we have built in America. The only men who have the patriotism to do it are the soldiers, and Smedley Butler is the ideal leader. He could organize a million men overnight."
Indeed, it turns out that MacGuire travelled to Italy to study Mussolini's fascist state, and came away mightily impressed. He wrote glowing reports back to his boss, Robert Clark, suggesting that they implement the same thing.

If this sounds too fantastic to believe, we should remember that by 1933, the crimes of fascism were still mostly in the future, and its dangers were largely unknown, even to its supporters. But in the early days, many businessmen openly admired Mussolini because he had used a strong hand to deal with labor unions, put out social unrest, and get the economy working again, if only at the point of a gun. Americans today would be appalled to learn of the many famous millionaires back then who initially admired Hitler and Mussolini: Henry Ford, John D. Rockefeller, John and Allen Dulles (who, besides being millionaires, would later become Eisenhower's Secretary of State and CIA Director, respectively), and, of course, everyone on the above list. They disavowed Hitler and Mussolini only after their atrocities grew to indefensible levels.

The plot fell apart when Butler went public. The general revealed the details of the coup before the McCormack-Dickstein Committee, which would later become the notorious House Un-American Activities Committee. (In the 50s, this committee would destroy the lives of hundreds of innocent Americans with its communist witch hunts.) The Committee heard the testimony of Butler and French, but failed to call in any of the coup plotters for questioning, other than MacGuire. In fact, the Committee whitewashed the public version of its final report, deleting the names of powerful businessmen whose reputations they sought to protect. The most likely reason for this response is that Wall Street had undue influence in Congress also. Even more alarming, the elite-controlled media failed to pick up on the story, and even today the incident remains little known. The elite managed to spin the story as nothing more than the rumors and hearsay of Butler and French, even though Butler was a Quaker of unimpeachable honesty and integrity. Butler, appalled by the cover-up, went on national radio to denounce it, but with little success.

Butler was not vindicated until 1967, when journalist John Spivak uncovered the Committee's internal, secret report. It clearly confirmed Butler's story:

In the last few weeks of the committee's life it received evidence showing that certain persons had attempted to establish a fascist organization in this country…

There is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned and might have been placed in execution if the financial backers deemed it expedient…

MacGuire denied [Butler's] allegations under oath, but your committee was able to verify all the pertinent statements made to General Butler, with the exception of the direct statement suggesting the creation of the organization. This, however, was corroborated in the correspondence of MacGuire with his principle, Robert Sterling Clark, of New York City, while MacGuire was abroad studying the various form of veterans' organizations of Fascist character.

If Gen. Butler had been less principaled, or the industrialists had chosen an alternate, who knows.

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True_Bob
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Re: Winning [Re: StaffordLarry]
      #1675710 - 02/24/12 08:03 AM (155.178.4.10)

Butler was a real patriot. IIRC, he was, at least once upon a time, the most decorated military servicemember evar.

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Reged: 10/24/07
Posts: 14095
Loc: Margaritaville
Re: Winning [Re: True_Bob]
      #1675825 - 02/26/12 12:13 PM (71.62.8.92)

I thought it was Audie Murphy ...

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