theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Dear Editor, Safe and secure burial of high level nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain, Nevada is a scientific impossibility and the Dept. of Energy knows it. See below. Yucca would be a man made dirty bomb and a planetary scale.
November 26, 2003
DOE predicts nuke reactions in casks
Nevadans worry about danger at Yucca By Suzanne Struglinski
LAS VEGAS SUN
WASHINGTON -- The Energy Department predicts up to 60 uncontrolled nuclear reactions would take place inside nuclear waste casks stored at power plant sites should the casks corrode, according to a department study obtained by Nevada officials.
After a review of the documents, state officials say they believe the same thing would happen at the planned Yucca Mountain nuclear waste dump, 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas.
The state wants the Nuclear Waste Technical Review Board, an independent board set up by Congress to review the potential dump, to look into the matter.
"We were amazed to learn, after finally obtaining some of the pertinent documents from the Department of Energy through the Freedom of Information Act, that DOE's own studies anticipate that, if the repository operates as is now planned, up to 60 nuclear criticalities may plausibly occur inside the mountain, and that (the) conditional probability of occurrence may be greater than one in 1,000 per year," Bob Loux, executive director of the state's Agency for Nuclear Projects wrote to board Chairman Michael Corradini.
Criticalities are uncontrolled nuclear reactions that could occur if water -- or other liquids -- got inside the casks. It could start a mininuclear reaction inside the casks and cause a steam explosion, said Washington attorney Joe Egan, who represents the state on Yucca matters.
The issue of water seepage at Yucca Mountain has been a critical point of debate over the planned nuclear waste repository. Scientists are still studying how water moves through the mountain. With or without water, the casks are eventually expected to corrode over a period of thousands of years.
State officials expressed surprise that the report wasn't disclosed as part of the Yucca Mountain debate.
They say Energy officials have said that the issue won't affect Yucca Mountain and state officials say this study shows that it does.
But Allen Benson, a Yucca Mountain project spokesman in Nevada, said the documents the state received do not relate to Yucca Mountain but are from a 4-year-old report looking at on-site waste storage facilities at nuclear power plants.
Benson said the department was glad Loux sent the letter to the board since it can now choose to review the matter, but that on-site storage and storage inside Yucca "are two different things."
Benson said that since the report shows that criticalities can take place inside above-ground storage containers at the 103 nuclear power plants throughout the country, especially if water gets in them, it makes even more sense to store the waste in Yucca, which is in the desert.
But state officials say the fact that the Energy Department acknowledges in this report that criticality is an issue is a huge threat.
Egan and Nevada Attorney General Brian Sandoval filed petitions with the U.S. Court Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, asking the court to include the FOIA documents in the court record. The state's major court arguments on the site will take place there on Jan. 14.
Loux said the department only predicated an "extremely low probability of occurrence" of such reactions in the Final Environmental Impact Statement issued last year. He quotes the document's specific text to that effect in his letter to Corradini.
State officials had Michael Thorne, a criticality expert, review the report and found that an expected 60 chain reaction events would occur throughout the lifetime of the repository since the department anticipates the waste packages will degrade over time.
"A criticality occurring in the repository could severely compromise the entire facility, vastly increasing radionuclide releases and making waste packages irretrievable," Loux wrote.
The department documents do not have a timeline for the events to occur, according to the letter.
"These are not nuclear explosions," Egan said. "We are not trying to scare anyone ... we are not saying this is going to happen, but DOE's own analysis notes it was a nonspeculative scenario."
But if the casks were to burst, the radioactive material would go with it. "It's literally a dirty bomb, a conventional explosion with radioactive materials," Egan said.
"Their maximum accident scenario in transport is $18 billion in clean-up (costs) and 44 early fatalities, and that's with a small puff of radiation not an explosion -- they call it a 'violent event' which is a euphemism for explosion," Egan said.
Russian Nuclear Waste Dump Explosion 1957
http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/Nuclear-Lighthouse-Hertsgaard.htm "I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds."
The line of Hindu scripture that flashed through Oppenheimer's mind at the moment "gadget," the first test bomb exploded above the New Mexico desert on July 16, 1945.
Bhagavad-Gita Chapter 11 The Vision of the Universal Form Lord Krishna is beseeched by Arjuna to reveal His universal form showing all of existence.
Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of al beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared. Bhagavad-Gita 11:32
(exerpt) As such, Mayak was the site of perhaps the biggest nuclear catastrophe in history after the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. There had been three nuclear disasters at Mayak whose damages were comparable to, and probably worse than, the reactor meltdown in 1986 that made Chernobyl a household name around the world. The difference with the Mayak disasters was that they never became media events. On the contrary, they were kept secret-not only from the outside world but from the Russian people, including hundreds of thousands of local residents who were exposed to massive amounts of radiation. In a striking case of Cold War duplicity and doublethink, the news from Mayak was suppressed by both the KGB and the CIA, each of which apparently feared an informed populace as much as it feared the enemy arsenal. (The CIA learned about the accidents in the course of normal intelligence gathering but declined to publicize them. Thus, when I reached Chelyabinsk in 1991, the three Mayak nuclear disasters still remained largely unknown to all but a handful of international nuclear policy experts.
Astonishingly enough, the first Mayak disaster was not an accident at all but the result of deliberate policy. From 1949, when the Mayak complex produced the Soviet Union's first nuclear weapon, until 1956, Mayak officials poured their nuclear waste directly into the nearby Techa River. Tens of thousands of people living downstream received average doses of radiation four times greater than those subsequently received at Chernobyl. For the twenty-eight thousand people most acutely exposed, average individual doses were fifty-seven times greater than at Chernobyl. Nevertheless, only seventy-five hundred people were ever evacuated from their homes, and people were not forbidden to use the river water until 1953, four years after the contamination began.
The second, and most terrible, Mayak disaster took place on September 29, 1957, when a nuclear waste dump exploded, spewing seventy to eighty metric tons of waste into the sky. The waste facility had been constructed in 1953 as an alternative to more river dumping. When its cooling system malfunctioned, the waste began to dry out and heat up, eventually reaching the unearthly temperature of 350 degrees Celsius. The resulting explosion was equivalent to seventy to one hundred tons of TNT-enough to blast a thick concrete lid off the tanks and hurl it twenty-five meters away. The total amount of ejected radioactivity measured twenty million curies -- ten times more than had already been dumped in the Techa River. Ninety percent of the radioactivity fell immediately back to earth, but the remaining two million curies formed a plume half a mile high that spread across the Chelyabinsk region, severely contaminating air, water, and soil. All the pine trees in a twenty-square-kilometer area died over the next eighteen months. Approximately 272,000 people were exposed to average doses of 0.7 rems of radiation, the same amount that 750,000 Chernobyl victims would experience in 1986.
The third Mayak disaster occurred in 1967, and again nuclear waste was the culprit. In 1951, after Mayak officials realized they could no longer dump waste in the Techa River but before they built the storage facility that would explode in 1957, they began pouring waste into Lake Karachay, a natural lake within the Mayak complex; since Karachay had no outlets, this measure, it was assumed, would keep the waste from contaminating the regional water system. However, in 1967, a cyclone swept across the drought-exposed shores of Lake Karachay and whirled its deadly silt high into the air and across the surrounding landscape. Five million curies of radioactivity ,were dispersed over fifteen thousand square miles; nearly half a million people were affected.
Atomic Age Timeline Animation: http://www.animatedsoftware.com/poifu/poifu.swf Posted for educational and research purposes only, ~ in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107 ~
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disillusionedx2
FUG Frequent Flyer
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 968
Loc: Chancellor District
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Seems like what ever someone wants to do in this country there is a person or a group who's opposed to it. With that fact in mind why should the planned/proposed Nuclear Repository at Yucca Mountain be any different.
Rather than just complain about what the government wants to do what do you suggest they do with all of the radio active waste currently in storage all over the country? What are the(better) viable alternatives to the Yucca Mountain site?
Quote from your article:"if the repository operates as is now planned, up to 60 nuclear criticalities may plausibly occur inside the mountain, and that (the) conditional probability of occurrence may be greater than one in 1,000 per year,"
"IF". . . "PLAUSIBLE" . . . "ONE in ONE THOUSAND" All sound very speculative not to mention that "one in one thousand" are failry long odds. Again, give us your definition of a better alternative to Yucca mountain.
Quote from your article: "Benson said that since the report shows that criticalities can take place inside above-ground storage containers at the 103 nuclear power plants throughout the country, especially if water gets in them, it makes even more sense to store the waste in Yucca, which is in the desert."
Seems to me that it'd be better to have this stuff in one location where it can be monitored much more effectively in a controlled environment than lying around the country in 103 different locations with 103 levels of security, 103 different climatic conditions and 103 different levels on monitoring.
But then I'll be the first to admit - I could be wrong and I sure as hell don't have a better idea. So why don't you tell me/us, what is the better alternative and what makes it better? Or is "NIMBY" (aka - "Not in Nevada's back yard") your only reason.
-------------------- The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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disillusionedX2, Here is the most cost effective method to denature and ELIMINATE nuclear waste, plutonium and "dirty bomb" elements for good....and generate electric power as a by-product. But the nuke industry make billions BY NOT solving the waste disp[osal problem endangering public health for thousands of future generations. It is ubiquitous for government funding 'programs' NOT to solve problems or make peace. There is far more profit in mischief and failure, our own culture of death. -------------------- THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC Sunday, November 4, 1979 Process may kill radiation threat
By CLARENCE W. BAILEY Copyright, 1979. The Arizona Republic
TEMPE -- An internationally recognized Arizona State University physicist disclosed Saturday that he has discovered a method for treating nuclear reacÂtor and other highly dangerous radioactive wastes so they will be harmless.
The procedure was conceived by Dr. Radha R. Roy professor of nuclear physics who is the designer and former director of nuclear-physics research faÂcilities at the University of Brussels In Belgium. and at Pennsylvania State UniÂversity.
Roy said the process “very roughly can be described in part as a reversal of phenomena that occur during a nuclear fission chain reactions.
The scientist said the process is the culmination of many years research
“Theoretical analysis and mathematical calculations confirm the process is highly effective and that any level of radio activity, from weak to strong. Can be reduced to harmless state in a short period of time,†Roy said.
The thing that is so encouraging is that the method can cancel radioactivity rapidly enough for it to be of r real practical value in disposing of dangerous wastes in storage and as they are being produced, Roy said.
One treatment-plant design which Roy has devised could reduce the radioacÂtivity of even the most dangerous wastes with half-lives or 15,000 to 40,000 years to a level where they would be essentially harmless in about 20 days.
A half-life is the time required for a quantity of radioactive material to lose one half of its radioactive strength.
Roy, who left his native Calcutta, India. to do advanced nuclear- physics reÂsearch at the University of London during World War II, said all the necessary theoretical and quantum electrodynamical work on the process has been completed.
“There remains perhaps as much as a years work in calculating parameters and preparing data that will he needed for the engineering design of a pilot radioÂactive waste-treatment plant’ he said.
Roy is known internationally among scientists for his many advanced research contributions in the field of nuclear fission fragments and as the author of deÂfinitive graduate and post-doctoral textbooks used in universities all over the world. “During the 37 years since the first fission chain reaction there has been no progress whatever toward the development of a method of deactivating radioactive waste or even for storing it safely,†he said.
“The collections of dangerous nuclear wastes in this country alone have now reached a total of at least 75 million gallons, and it is growing daily.â€
He estimated an operational nuclear waste-treatment plant could cost $40 milÂlion or more. By contrast, he noted, Congress last summer appropriated $80 million just to build more concrete storage bunkers to hold only a part of the growing accumulation of nuclear wastes.
“Since it is so very dangerous to ship strongly radioactive materials it would certainly be sensible to build a treatment plant for each reactor so radioactivity could be killed out before the waste is transported anywhere" the scientist said.
Roy said that the national danger from nuclear waste is "extremely serious" and urged the federal government to build treatment plants near established nuclear waste storage areas. Other treatment plants should be constructed to kill out the radioactivity in the wastes from the nation's weapons programs and from its educational, industrial, medical and experimental research facilities he said.
Roy warned that waste containing plutonium 239 is "critically dangerous" because of its extremely high radioactivity and also because it is the essential ingredient in an atomic bomb.
The treatment process not only will render plutonium 239 harmless in a remarkably short time, he said, but also will keep deactivated plutonium from ever being reprocessed to make an illegal atomic weapon.
Roy further warned that the United States not only is exporting nuclear energy when it sells reactor technology to foreign nations, but also is sending overseas the potential for making illegal bombs out of plutonium from reprocessed nuclear wastes.
The treatment method will guarantee to foreign countries that use nuclear fission energy that they can maintain an environment free from radioactivity, and it also could guarantee to the world that there will be no reuse of plutonium in an unauthorized weapon, he said. Careful theoretical and mathematical analysis have assured him that the nuclear waste- treatment process will function reliably and with rapidity and high efficiency, he said.
"But the existence of this promising nuclear waste-treatment procedure should not be construed in any sense to mean that nuclear fission power reactors are safe" Roy said. The contractor who built Three Mile Island's reactor-like those who built the other 71 reactors now operational in the United States -- expected that plant to function normally for 30 years in total safety without event .But the fact is that it went out of control and nearly created a meltdown which could have destroyed a large part of the human habitat of east-central Pennsylvania,'' Roy said.
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Neutralize & Eliminate Nuclear Waste For Good The Roy Process Brief Description from the web site: http://members.cox.net/theroyprocess
Is there a safe process to get rid of nuclear waste? One possible solution is a process invented by Dr. Radha R. Roy, former professor of Physics at Arizona State University, and designer and former director of the nuclear physics research facilities at the University of Brussels in Belgium and at Pennsylvania State University.
Dr. Roy is an internationally known nuclear physicist, consultant, and the author of over 60 articles and several books. He is also a contributing author of many invited articles in a prestigious encyclopedia. He is cited in American Men and Women of Science, Who`s Who in America, Who`s Who in the World and the International Biographical Centre, England. He has spent 52 years in European and American universities researching and writing recognized books on nuclear physics. He has supervised many doctoral students.
Roy invented a process for transmuting radioactive nuclear isotopes to harmless, stable isotopes. This process is viable not only for nuclear waste from reactors but also for low-level radioactive waste products.
In 1979, Roy announced his transmutation process and received international attention. The Roy process does not require storage of radioactive materials. No new equipment is required. In fact, all of the equipment and the chemical separation processes needed are well known.
What`s the basis for the Roy Process? If you examine radioactive elements such as strontium 90, cesium 137 and plutonium 239, you will see that they all have too many neutrons. To put it very simply, the Roy process transmutes these unstable isotopes to stable ones by knocking out the extra neutrons. When a neutron is removed, the resulting isotope has a considerably shorter half-life which then decays to a stable form in a reasonable amount of time.
How do we knock out neutrons? By bombarding them with photons (produced as x-rays) in a high- powered electron linear accelerator. Before this process, the isotopes must be separated by a well-known chemical process.
It is feasible that portable units could be built and transported to hazardous sites for on-site transmutation of nuclear wastes and radioactive wastes.
To give an example, cesium 137 with a half-life of 30.17 years is transformed into cesium 136 with a half-life of 13 days. Plutonium 239 with a half-life of 24,300 years is transformed into plutonium 237 with a half-life of 45.6 days. Subsequent radioactive elements which will be produced from the decay of plutonium 237 can be treated in the same way as above until the stable element is formed.
From the Patent application claim: http://members.cox.net/theroyprocess/additional-uses-royprocess.html
Dr. Roy released his Roy Process to the press in 1979. Scientists of a large company saw the Patent application under non- disclosure agreements and said the Roy Process was "entirely feasible". Dr. Roy was offered millions of dollars for the patent rights. NOT to develop it...but to shelve it. Dr. Roy refused. Then Ronald Reagan signed the 1982 Nuclear Waste Policy Act which made "geologic isolation" (burial) of nuclear waste, federal policy, putting viable alternatives in scientific limbo. Now after wasting hundreds of billions of tax payers money on junk science, nuclear waste has leaked into our precious ground water.
Dr. Roy was right. There IS only one way to totally eliminate high level nuclear waste and that is to transmute and denature it for good. Dennis F. Nester Atomic Age Timeline Animation:
http://www.animatedsoftware.com/poifu/poifu.swf
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disillusionedx2
FUG Frequent Flyer
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 968
Loc: Chancellor District
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Never heard of, Dr. Radha R. Roy, or of his process. However, IF you are suggesting that there is some massive government, press, freemarket conspiracy that's preventing his "transmuting" process from gaining the upper hand thereby making Yucca Mountain unnecessary my immediate reaction is: you gotta be kidding me.
-------------------- The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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All new science is suppressed and/or stolen. I presented the Roy Process at the International TESLA science conference in Denver, Colorado several years ago. I saw other new inventions such as a moped bike that worked on permanent magnetic force repulsion...no fuel! ---------------- http://members.cox.net/theroyprocess/the-new-york-times.html ------------------------------ DOE Squandered Billions on Useless Nuke Waste Technologies By Brian Hansen
WASHINGTON, DC, November 13, 2000 (ENS) - The U.S. Department of Energy has "squandered hundreds of millions of dollars" since the end of the Cold War trying to develop innovative technologies for cleaning up the nation's contaminated nuclear weapons sites, concludes a Congressional report unveiled last week.
The report, "Incinerating Cash," was authored by staff members of the House Commerce Committee's Republican majority. The committee's Democratic members did not participate in drafting the report.
The report charges that the Department of Energy (DOE) has wasted much of the $3.4 billion that it has spent over the last decade on efforts to develop new technologies for cleaning up nuclear weapons wastes. Congress ordered the DOE in 1989 to initiate the program to address the environmental issues resulting from decades of nuclear weapons production.
The committee's report concludes that the DOE has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on technologies that "have not proved useful" in the clean up mission. Moreover, the "useful" clean up technologies that the DOE has produced have not been used effectively by the agency or its private contractors, the report found.
Of the 918 technologies that the DOE has funded, just 31 - less than 4 percent - have been deployed more than three times at contaminated nuclear weapons sites, the report notes. Of the technologies that have been deployed, more than half have been used only once, the report adds.
The report attributes the failure of the program to an "ongoing pattern of mismanagement and lack of focus" within the DOE's Office of Science and Technology, which is implementing the initiative.
Carolyn Huntoon, the DOE's assistant secretary for environmental management, was quick to dispute the findings of the Commerce Committee's report. In a written statement, Huntoon rejected claims that the technology program has not produced results.
"One out of every five research and development projects have resulted in a viable technology being used by the department," Huntoon said.
The DOE's nuclear waste complex consists of 113 geographic waste sites located throughout the country. The DOE recently estimated that it will cost between $151 and $195 billion over the next 70 years to clean up the complex, not including the $51 billion already spent between 1990 and 1999.
The Commerce Committee's report cited a number of case studies in concluding that those costs will not be appreciably reduced by the application of technologies developed by the DOE's Office of Science and Technology (OST).
Those case studies were based in large part on a survey conducted earlier this year, in which several large DOE site contractors were asked to describe their use of commercially available OST funded technologies.
One DOE site analyzed in the committee's survey was the Rocky Flats facility near Denver, Colorado, where large quantities of wastes containing plutonium and other radioactive constituents must be characterized, stabilized, packaged and moved off site. The DOE's environmental management program has to date spent some $4.9 billion at Rocky Flats, and the agency plans to spend another $4.5 billion over the next five years to complete environmental cleanup activities by the year 2006.
However, the Kaiser-Hill Company, the DOE's contractor at the site, has so far found use for just seven commercially available clean up technologies, the Commerce Committee's report found. The company will likely deploy no more than three of the DOE's technologies in the year 2000, the committee's survey found.
"Thus, after 10 years and $3.4 billion spent to develop technologies to reduce costs and speed cleanup, few [DOE] funded technologies have been used for cleanup at Rocky Flats, and few will likely be used in the future," the report declares.
The report also notes how DOE funded technologies have been ineffective in advancing remediation activities at the Hanford nuclear reservation in Washington state, where the cleanup of 177 underground tanks containing radioactive wastes is one of the most expensive and significant long term waste management projects within the DOE complex.
The report notes that Hanford's radioactive tank wastes represent a huge potential impact to human health and the environment. Hanford's Office of River Protection (ORP) spends more than $300 million each year for characterization, interim stabilization, and resolution of tank safety issues to control the approximately 200 million curies of cesium, strontium and other radioactive constituents stored in rapidly degrading underground tanks.
Some 30 tanks are known to have leaked in the past.
Since 1990, the DOE has spent $4 billion on this project, and the agency plans to spend $13 billion over the next 70 years on tank farm operations. To date, the DOE has funded 80 technologies and has spent hundreds of millions of dollars at Hanford.
But the committee's report finds that the commercially available technologies funded by the DOE have provided "no significant use" for characterizing or stabilizing the Hanford tank wastes, nor will they do so in the future. According to the CH2M Hill Hanford Group, the DOE's contractor at the site, none of the commercially available technologies have been deployed at the Hanford tank farms.
The report is also critical of the DOE's use of taxpayer funded technologies to improve operations at the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant in New Mexico, where radioactive waste is interned in casks hundreds of feet below the surface of the desert. ------------------------ Financial Times
Lords attack failures on radioactive waste By Fiona Harvey Published: December 10 2004 02:00 | Last updated: December 10 2004 02:00 http://news.ft.com/cms/s/408c1d14-4a50-11d9-b065-00000e2511c8.html The government has been condemned for its failure to develop a coherent policy on radioactive waste management. A report by the House of Lords science and technology committee found that the government instructed a new advisory body to start with a blank sheet on drawing up a strategy, without consulting its scientific experts. Lord Oxburgh, chairman, was "dismayed" by the lack of urgency. "The UK has generated radioactive waste for more than half a century and still hasn't decided how to deal with it," he said. Fiona Harvey
* See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at http://nucnews.net * (Posted for educational and research purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107) *
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fxbg_knight
Mystical FUG Sage
Reged: 06/11/02
Posts: 5000
Loc: Caroline
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so we'll end up with 3 boobed hookers....i see no problems with that.
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peabody
Super FUG
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4169
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
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I resent it when you, an outsider, come in to FredTalk and post crap in the general forum. You don't even have the sense to go into the hot seat.
I would like to make three points. A "nuclear criticality" is not an atomic explosion. It's not good but it's not catastrophic. Water has a much greater likelyhood of getting into a radioactive waste cannister sitting in South Carolina or any other eastern reactor site than it does in Yucca Mountain.
Secondly, I spent 4 years at the Nevada Test Site in the late 70s when the studies of the safety of storage of nuclear waste at Yucca were being performed. At that time environmental impact statements were new and the EPA was going overboard. The environmental impact statement for the 1300 plus square miles which included the test site and Yucca mountain concluded that you could virtually destroy the place (nuclear testing) with little adverse impact to the place.
Thirdly, your doctor roy (lower case intentional) is either a charlatan or has developed a method to repeal the laws of thermodynamics and has invented perpetual motion (like your permanent magnet scooter).
Fortunately, anyone with more than a 3rd grade "edumacation" will really enjoy your posting for the absurditity that it is
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disillusionedx2
FUG Frequent Flyer
Reged: 06/06/03
Posts: 968
Loc: Chancellor District
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Quote: peabody
I resent it when you, an outsider, come in to FredTalk and post crap in the general forum. You don't even have the sense to go into the hot seat.
I would like to make three points. A "nuclear criticality" is not an atomic explosion. It's not good but it's not catastrophic. Water has a much greater likelyhood of getting into a radioactive waste cannister sitting in South Carolina or any other eastern reactor site than it does in Yucca Mountain.
Secondly, I spent 4 years at the Nevada Test Site in the late 70s when the studies of the safety of storage of nuclear waste at Yucca were being performed. At that time environmental impact statements were new and the EPA was going overboard. The environmental impact statement for the 1300 plus square miles which included the test site and Yucca mountain concluded that you could virtually destroy the place (nuclear testing) with little adverse impact to the place.
Thirdly, your doctor roy (lower case intentional) is either a charlatan or has developed a method to repeal the laws of thermodynamics and has invented perpetual motion (like your permanent magnet scooter).
Fortunately, anyone with more than a 3rd grade "edumacation" will really enjoy your posting for the absurditity that it is
Yo, Peabody! Do us all a favor and quit with the "outsider" bullsheet will you? This come here attitude is really really annoying. The Freelance Star owns this BB and unless I missed something: they have no stipulation about where you live being a condition for posting.
We are living in the 21st century it really is becoming all one world - so do us all a favor and loose the come here attitude.
Otherwise your post strikes me as right on because his whining about Yucca Mountain seems hollow at best. IMHO - of course
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peabody
Super FUG
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4169
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
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The reason I said "outsider" is because this Bozo has done a search on all the BBS type forums he can find and has posted this same ignorant claptrap on many of them. His claims for this "roy" conflict with the laws of nature. You cannot create energy out of nothing. (Wouldn't surprise me if this is the "Dr Roy" himself posting these "articles")
His postings are forum spam
He isn't interested on any exchange of ideas, comments, etc with people on here. He is only interested in disseminating his misinformation as widely as he can.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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"Dirty Bombs" is a topic on Wednesday's 60 Minutes YV Show. Maybe you will get a clue how important radioactive environmental contamination is to thousands of future generations.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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FYI Radioactive Contamination in America Mina Hamolton
Iraq's alleged nuclear threat sinks into the dustbin of history. Americans can stop worrying about atomic perils? Wrong. Americans are at risk from American-as-apple-pie, Stars-and-Stripes, and made-in-USA, WMDs.
A just-released study, Danger Lurks Beneath: The Threat to Major Water Supplies from US Department of Energy Nuclear Weapons Plants, details the danger. Written by Dr. Marvin Resnikoff, a high energy, nuclear physicist, who has been studying nuclear hazards for 28 years and published by the public interest group, the Alliance for Nuclear Accountability, this book will curl your hair.
Danger Lurks Beneath shows EVEN IF THE US NUCLEAR ARSENAL IS NEVER USED a deadly plague has been released upon the land and water. Though most of the 13 nuclear weapons factories are currently shutdown (a situation President Bush would love to change), the contamination is spreading.
The process of manufacturing nuclear bombs is not dramatic. Unlike an actual nuclear exchange no humans are burned to a crisp, no cities are pulverized. But the ingredients for a nuclear bomb must be mined, sheared, heated, melted, liquefied, transformed into gas, spun, fashioned into metal, nuked, chopped up, put through chemical baths, extracted - all the while unleashing a host of poisons.
The hazard isn't just to the citizens living nearby to the factories. The poisons threaten us all.
Imagine the distance between Boston and New York. It's a five-hour, pedal-to-the-metal highway jaunt. It's also the alarming distance toxins have migrated away from the Hanford nuclear weapons factory in Washington.
Mussels and oysters found on the Washington coast are contaminated with radioactive poisons that flowed down to the coast from Hanford, 200 miles upstream. This is one of many devastating findings in Danger Lurks Beneath.
How can we take in the enormity of what's happened and is still happening?
We learn that four major rivers and many minor rivers are already contaminated or at risk. The Columbia River in Washington, the Snake River in Idaho, the Tuscaloosa River in Georgia, the Rio Grande in New Mexico, the Great Miami River and Ohio Rivers in Ohio.
How do we wrap our minds around four major rivers at risk? What does it mean for people who swim, fish or drink from those rivers? What about people picnicking alongside those rivers? Are the grasses along the banks safe? Is the sediment toxic?
The risk is not a hypothetical, let's-worry-in-ten-years matter. At the Fernald nuclear weapons factory in Ohio the plant managers deliberately poured - via a buried pipeline -tons of uranium into the Great Miami River. Yes, TONS. And this is a river that flows into the Ohio River from which many municipalities draw drinking water.
Ohio communities are not the only ones whose water supplies are threatened. One water reservoir has already had to be shutdown, the Great Western reservoir in the suburbs of Denver. It's contaminated by runoff from the Rocky Flats factory. Now a second nearby water reservoir, Standley Lake, is also polluted by radioactivity.
The information in Danger Lurks Beneath is so shocking we want to comfort ourselves, assure ourselves, Hey we don't live there or near there. Problem: The toxins are seeping into the food chain in sinister ways. For example, ever eat farm-fed trout? That delicious, fresh trout staring up from your plate was probably grown in water drawn from the Snake River aquifer in Idaho. The nearby Idaho nuclear weapons factory is polluting the aquifer.
For the first time in 2000, plutonium was detected in two locations in this aquifer. A host of other nasty chemicals and radionuclides had already been found in this vital water source.
Not that the trout are contaminated, at least, as far as we know. But here's an indicator of how real the threat is: several years ago a trout farmer tried to sell his Idaho hatchery business to the company, W.R. Grace. He was turned down. What were W.R. Grace's reasons? They didn't want a fish farm that gets its water from a source above which nuclear waste is buried. (1)
W.R. Grace was not whistling in the dark. It's a company that knows about nuclear hazards. Back in the 1960's, Grace ran a now-defunct nuclear reprocessing factory in West Valley, NY.
Danger Lurks Beneath shows that the contamination from nuke weapons factories is widespread and it's traveling along unknown and unmapped pathways. We're fooling ourselves if we think we're safe -- anywhere.
The information is this book would be easier to swallow if there were a villain, an archenemy like Saddam to blame. But these villains are US government employees making extraordinarily dumb decisions, decisions driven by a blind dedication to so-called national security.
During four decades worth of bomb making the Atomic Energy Commission and its successor the Department of Energy adopted an out-of-sight, out-of-mind policy. Dump the waste where nobody can see it. Pump poison into aquifers, pipe it to rivers, dump it into streams, ponds and trenches, site burial grounds in swamps. And, all the while, lie about what you're doing.
This WMD threat makes Saddam's "nuclear" menace look like a cupcake. Ditto North Korea's or Iran's.
Don't expect President Bush to make jokes about this threat. No way is he going to engage in a comic routine looking under the desk in the Oval Office for by-products of the US's bomb building spree.
Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich, John Kerry, the US Congress, the media and any sane member of the human species should be trumpeting the findings of this report across the land. Will they? Are they?
Are we?
(1) Perspectives of a Former Idaho Trout Farmer, www.ieer.org/sdafiles.
To obtain a copy of Danger Lurks Beneath go to www.ananuclear.org. If you don't feel up to the 270-page study, an Executive Summary is available. Also you can download individual chapters on nuclear factories nearest you or your family and friends.
Mina Hamilton is a writer based in New York City. She is a Contributing Editor to Danger Lurks Beneath: The Threat to Major Water Supplies from US Department of Energy Nuclear Weapons Plants. She can be reached at minaham@aol.com.
Atomic Age Timeline Animation: http://www.animatedsoftware.com/poifu/poifu.swf * See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at http://nucnews.net * (Posted for educational and research purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107) *
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peabody
Super FUG
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4169
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
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The dangers of radioactive contamination have not been questioned.
There are two questions to answer. Is it safer to store radioactive waste from power reactors underground at Yucca Mountain or at the individual power plants. It seems obvious that storing the material underground in the middle of the desert in a site with restricted access and guards is safer than storing the same material at individual power plants with lesser security.
The second question is the validity of your "Roy Process" which defies the basic laws of physice, i.e. conservation of energy and matter and appears to be nothing but a crack pot scheme with followers from the tin foil hat crowd.
Stick to the point. Prove your basic premises that this process will work and that storage at Yucca mountain is more dangerous than the current storage methods. Your postings point out very clearly that current methods of handling and storing nuclear waste are severely inadequate. Put them in Yucca mountain in the middle of the desert where the water table is hundreds of feet below the storage area.
It appears that you follow the adage "If you can't win with facts and logic, baffle them with bullshit"
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peabody
Super FUG
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4169
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
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By the way, Sir, do you have any qualifications that would validate your opinions on this "Roy process"? That is qualifications other than basic high school science and the ability to conduct a web search and read?
I don't mean to be insulting, just looking to determine if you have the knowledge to evaluate anything scientific. Please don't respond by posting another article about the dangers of radioactive contamination. We are in agreement about the dangers. We disagree on the solution.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Dr. Roy instructed me for the last ten years of his career as a world leading nuclear physicist. During that time I typed up the first manuscript of his yet unpublished autobiography. I know the story behind the story what happened to Dr. Roy. The Roy Process is NEW science, beyond mainstream knowledge. You might say exta- dimensional. Dr. Roy released his Roy Process to the press in 1979. Scientists of a large company saw the Patent application under non- disclosure agreements and said the Roy Process was "entirely feasible". Dr. Roy was offered millions of dollars for the patent rights. NOT to develop it...but to shelve it. Dr. Roy refused. Then Ronald Reagan signed the 1982 Nuclear Waste Policy Act which made "geologic isolation" (burial) of nuclear waste, federal policy, putting viable alternatives in scientific limbo. They just passed a feferal law around it! Now after wasting hundreds of billions of tax payers money on junk science, nuclear waste has leaked into our precious ground water.
They tried to buy the Roy Process....then they tried to steal it. When that failed Dr. Roy got death threats and was harassed. There should be a Nuke-gate Congressional investigation. Since the nuke industry gives millions in political action money to Congress...the Juggernaut goes unchecked.
To continue this cash cow....the nuclear industry is proposing vitrification (solidifying) nuclear waste...a failed technology they already know will not safely and securely contain high level nuclear waste for 500,000 years, 20 half lives of plutonium 239.
Dr. Roy was right. There IS only one way to totally eliminate high level nuclear waste and that is to transmute and denature it for good.
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peabody
Super FUG
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4169
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
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I'm floored. You have at least one glaring error in your post. Patent applications are in the public domain. No one needs a nondisclosure agreement to read it. Was he given a patent? What is the application number of the patent? I would like to read it. Thank you
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Peabody, Unless you have a small fortune to pay Patent attorneys to defend your Patent rights, (Patents) are a license to steal other peoples work! Since Ronald Reagan made "geologic isolation" federal policy in 1982. There was no reason to finish the patent since federal policy limited science to burial of nuclear waste. So much for scientific progress. As per Dr. Roy's instruction the Roy Process remains secret until the feds formerly solicit it and change federal law.
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peabody
Super FUG
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4169
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
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Quote:
Dr. Roy released his Roy Process to the press in 1979. Scientists of a large company saw the Patent application under non-disclosure agreements and said the Roy Process was "entirely feasible".
Quote: theroyprocess
Peabody, Unless you have a small fortune to pay Patent attorneys to defend your Patent rights, (Patents) are a license to steal other peoples work! Since Ronald Reagan made "geologic isolation" federal policy in 1982. There was no reason to finish the patent since federal policy limited science to burial of nuclear waste. So much for scientific progress. As per Dr. Roy's instruction the Roy Process remains secret until the feds formerly solicit it and change federal law.
There are many reasons not to submit a patent application. The ones you have listed point to the paranoid. We will leave it here. Disposal of nuclear waste is a problem. We don't agree on the solution. I don't believe your "roy process" would be practical or cost effective. Chemical and isotopic separation of all the fission products would be a prodigious dangerous task. Bombarding the separated products with photons would be another extremely dangerous task. (Yes, I've googled it and read all of your web sites) It appears that the "roy process" would be creating as much danger as it alleviates.
This will be my last post on this topic since I do not wish to join the "Tin Foil Hat Brigade" with you!!
PS.. Did the aliens give this information to dr roy?
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Peabody, As you might understand, the Roy Process IS the most important scientific invention in human history. I'm not about to disclose high level nuclear secrets on a web site. Here is Dr. Roy's CV. http://members.cox.net/theroyprocess/bio.html
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peabody
Super FUG
Reged: 11/07/02
Posts: 4169
Loc: at the end of the rainbow
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Quote: theroyprocess
Peabody, As you might understand, the Roy Process IS the most important scientific invention in human history. I'm not about to disclose high level nuclear secrets on a web site. Here is Dr. Roy's CV. http://members.cox.net/theroyprocess/bio.html
Dennis The Roy Process is a theory, not an invention. It's an idea which was "proven" using mathematics. Any engineer or scientist can tell you that it's a long way from concept to a practical working model. You are looking only at the expected results and ignoring the danger and work involved in implementation.
If you are correct, the process is worth billions of dollars. That should be enough to get some venture capitalists to fund your development. Build a working model, then come back. Until then all you are doing is promoting conspiracy theories. Do you own the rights to the 100 mile-per-gallon carburator that was "suppressed" 60 years ago?
Bye Bye--forever, this time
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bigmtk
FUG Frequent Flyer
Reged: 06/17/04
Posts: 1080
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I find it odd that other than on web pages that are almost identical clones of each other, there is little or no information on Dr. Roy, the process, the books the Dr. has supposedly written etc etc etc. Leads me to believe that this whole thread is based on fantasy, perpetuated by made up "facts" and outright lies.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Peabody, You don't know anything about real world science or it's politics. Dr. Roy would call you a "non-entity". If you saw 60 Minutes last night about "Dirty Bombs Waiting to Happen" you should appreciated the seriousness of this issue. The Roy Process IS a pioneer scientific invention, (apparatus and theory)as characterized by the Patent attorney who consulted Dr. Roy.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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To illustrate the "Fleecing of America" to the tune of billions of tax payer money on junk science:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1213-27.htm Published on Monday, December 13, 2004 by the Boston Globe MIT's Role in Missile Test Fraud by Theodore A. Postol (excerpt)
After more than 3 1/2 years of foot-dragging, excuses, and violations of federal regulations, MIT announced last week that it could not investigate credible evidence of possible scientific fraud in fundamental National Missile Defense research being done at MIT's Lincoln Laboratory. The reason outgoing president Charles M. Vest gave is that the Pentagon had classified everything about the investigation. If the particular allegations of fraud have merit -- and I believe they do -- MIT and the Pentagon have been involved in a fraud that has promoted a weapon system that will have little or no utility and could cost hundreds of billions of dollars. Of even greater importance, millions of lives could be lost if this weapon system failed to defend our nation from a nuclear ballistic missile attack.
The allegations of fraud involve the critically important Integrated Flight Test 1A, or IFT-1A, in June 1997. Its purpose was to determine if the currently deployed National Missile Defense could tell the difference between warheads flying through space and simple balloons designed to look like warheads. If the IFT-1A experiment could not demonstrate that the weapon could perform this task, the weapon could never have a realistic chance of working in combat. * See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at http://nucnews.net * (Posted for educational and research purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107) *
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Burqajoint
Permanent FUG Fixture
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 36424
Loc: The grotto at Chateau Burquoi...
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This is an issue that Bush has been on both sides of.
Yep, that's right, depending on which way the wind was blowing, he's been both for and against storing nuke waste at Yucca Mountain.
-------------------- Have you heard the news? There's good rockin' tonight!
Iraq Death Toll as of February 1, 2010: 4,378
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DJ_MIKE
FUG Professional
Reged: 01/23/04
Posts: 416
Loc: Falmouth
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My personal opinion is that they should get that stuff off the planet. It is harming us here. If it was launched into the sun, it would not hurt the sun, the sun is already so big and so nuclear that it would have no effect on it or us. The only thing we could stand to loose is if Mr. Bin-Laden and Company made a strike on it upon launch or the rocket detonates before it gets out of the atmosphere. Launching this stuff into the sun recycles the nuclear waste. It doesn't harm the sun or us. If they are shipping all that stuff to this mountain in trucks, there is no reason they couldn't launch it off the planet. To me this would be the responsible thing to do.
-------------------- Mike Burke
In the set of
"Gods & Generals"
Fredericksburg VA
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vincegillstwin
Mystical FUG Sage
Reged: 12/11/02
Posts: 5696
Loc: omotion
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Unless it misses the sun and hits us when we're on the backside of the big circle around the fireball. Wouldn't that be Three Stooges-esque?
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cassandra&sarasdaddy
FUGmaster Flash
Reged: 06/27/03
Posts: 18951
Loc: hartwood
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suffs kinda heavy (with the containers and all take a lotta launches one challenger type failure and a lottareal estate is gonna glow in the dark. shooting it to the sun is an old idea awaiting reliable technology to implement it. a magnetic rail gun launcher with the needed ooomph might be interesting to try
-------------------- under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Too late already....they waited too long! Just hold an appropriate Geiger counter next to your ankle bone and see what happens? Atomic Age Timeline Animation: http://www.animatedsoftware.com/poifu/poifu.swf GAMMAWATCH Geiger Counter http://www.gammawatch.com/geiger.htm GEIGER COUNTERS http://www.geigercounters.com/
Chernobyl and the Collapse of Soviet Society http://www.ratical.org/radiation/Chernobyl/ChernobylCoSS.html http://www.mothersalert.org/chernobyl.html
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mfloyd
FUGmaster Flash
Reged: 02/03/03
Posts: 20006
Loc: Underground in the Empire...
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Nothing matters anymore now anyway...I just got cold fusion to work in a mayonaise jar out here at the Ridge....
Now I just gotta find a way to use it against The Man...
-------------------- "All political states, benign or tyrannical, exist on a foundation of popular consent."
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Heidelberg
FUGmaster Flash
Reged: 06/14/02
Posts: 10684
Loc: Fredericksburg
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So how do you know that the radioactivity of the sun is NOT a balanced cycle that would be greatly disturbed if we were to blow our nasties toward it? How many times do you think creation(earth, living planet) is going to let us get away with "oops" we didn't know?
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Heidelberg, It would be cost prohibitive to rocket nuclear waste to the Sun. The danger of rocket failure would make it a "dirty bomb" on a planetary scale. And as Dr. Bertell points out, rockets deposit ozone depleting chemicals right where it does the most harm. Dr. Roy invented the most cost effective method to transmute nuclear waste and generate electric power as a by-product using existing infrastructure. What more could you ask for?
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dirkwright
FUG Sophomore
Reged: 02/18/04
Posts: 27
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As a patent examiner, the explanation as to why the Roy process was not patented makes perfect sense and is not paranoid at all. There is no reason to get a patent unless you have the money to defend it in court. Large corporations are notorious for stealing them. Also, patent applications in 1979 were held confidential until they were issued as patents. The inventor requiring a non-disclosure agreement of a corporation to view the application is also perfectly reasonable. It is niave to believe that Reagan was not encouraged by large corporations to change the law regarding acceptable nuclear waste disposal methods to benefit them in order to squash any new method like the Roy process. These kinds of things happen all the time.
As to the merits of the Roy process, it seems to me on it's face to have potential to change nuclear waste into something less dangerous. I don't know enough about nuclear physics to really give an detailed response, but I do know that nuclear accelerators do change atomic structure and that bombarding nuclear waste would certainly change it into something else.
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Tiger_II_Jim
FUG Frequent Flyer
Reged: 11/12/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: Downtown Fredericksburg
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There have been lots of numbers thrown around in this discussion. Here's a couple of facts: You get about 1.0 rem exposure from a medical chest x-ray OR if you fly on a commercial airliner coast to coast (less atmosphere to shield you from cosmic radiation). I majored in Physics at UVA, ran nuclear reactors on our Navy's subs for several years, and currently work as an Engineer, so I know what I'm talking about. I agree that nuclear waste storage is a problem RIGHT NOW. Yucca Mountain is the best alternative to storage at the nuclear power plants RIGHT NOW. If the "roy process" is viable, and can be made to work (probably several to many years from now) then we could easily set up a "roy process" facility at Yucca Mountain to transmute the radioactive material, as well as at each nuclear power plant.
I used a 1 MEV (that's Million Electron Volt) particle accelerator as an undergrad. It took a LOT of power and produced miniscule ammounts of transmuted material. I'm skeptical of the claims for the "roy process" but I'd like the opportunity to evaluate it with an open mind. PM me if you want to take me up on it.
-------------------- Tiger_II_Jim
LBC (Little British Car) with a V8 - Hang on if you can!
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theroyprocess
FUG Freshman
Reged: 12/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Phoenix
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Tiger II, Sorry sport. The Roy Process was ready for commercial development in 1979 when Dr. Roy released the story to the press. There remains about a years work calculating engineering parameters for the pilot facilities which Dr. Roy estimated should take three years to construct. It is available to a company capable of realization who contracts with us. Are you ready to lay out 100 million dollars to start?
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Burqajoint
Permanent FUG Fixture
Reged: 01/06/04
Posts: 36424
Loc: The grotto at Chateau Burquoi...
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Quote: Tiger_II_Jim
There have been lots of numbers thrown around in this discussion. Here's a couple of facts: You get about 1.0 rem exposure from a medical chest x-ray OR if you fly on a commercial airliner coast to coast (less atmosphere to shield you from cosmic radiation)....
And we NEED mor radiation, too.
Hey, I saw Repo Man, too.
-------------------- Have you heard the news? There's good rockin' tonight!
Iraq Death Toll as of February 1, 2010: 4,378
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