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The hot seat >> Morality

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CncrndCitzen
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Unborn Victims of Violence Act
      #142240 - 09/12/03 12:39 AM (68.70.174.230)

BreakPoint with Charles Colson Commentary #030910 - 09/10/2003
One Victim, or Two?: The Unborn Victims of Violence Act

On the worst night of her life, Tracy Marciniak -- nine months pregnant -- was brutally attacked by her own husband. He punched her in the abdomen and then kept
her from calling for help.

Tracy nearly died from the assault, and her son Zachariah -- just five days from his due date -- bled to death from blunt-force trauma. A picture taken at his funeral
shows a grieving mother holding what appears to be a healthy, sleeping baby.

Seeing the picture, most people would see two victims of crime. But incredibly, some lawmakers insist that there's only one victim in the picture: Tracy. As far as they're
concerned, Zachariah cannot be a crime victim because he had not yet been born when his father killed him.

And that's exactly why Congress needs to pass the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (S. 1019).

As Tracy told Congress, "I know that some lawmakers . . . insist that there is no such thing as an unborn victim -- but that is callous, and it is wrong. Please don't
tell me that my son was not a real victim of a real crime. We were both victims, but only I survived . . . The man who killed Zachariah got away with murder."

The family of Laci Peterson and her unborn child, Conner, also know what it's like to be told they lost only one family member to murder, as one feminist leader claimed.
That's why the family wants this bill called the "Laci and Conner's Law."

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act will allow prosecutors to go after those who injure or kill an unborn child while committing a violent federal crime. The bill would not
affect abortion laws, and yet the abortion lobby is trying frantically to kill it. Why?

It's because they know that a law protecting a Conner or Zachariah changes the entire abortion debate.

Up until now, abortion zealots have successfully portrayed abortion as a hard choice women make only in desperate circumstances. They say the fetus is not really a "person,"
that a woman's "choice" is nobody else's business.

But who could see pictures of Zachariah and still believe the fetus is less than a human person? Who could witness the agony of Conner Peterson's grandparents and still
believe that the death of an unborn child affects no one but the mother?

Most dangerous of all, for the abortion lobby, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act portrays the baby as a victim, which sets up an unpleasant conflict in the hearts
and minds of Americans. If the fetus is a person, how can we take his life indiscriminately? And if it's illegal for fathers to bludgeon unborn babies to death, why are we letting mothers hire an abortionist to do the same thing?

The House of Representatives has twice passed the Unborn Victims of Violence Act. But in the Senate, abortion groups have, so far, blocked its passage.

When Congress comes back next month, the Senate will debate this bill once again. So between now and then, by phone, letter, or e-mail, urge your two senators to support
it. As Tracy Marciniak put it, "No surviving mother, father, or grandparent should ever again be told that their murdered loved one never even existed in the eyes of the law."


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Gryphon
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: CncrndCitzen]
      #142242 - 09/12/03 12:59 AM (68.110.243.134)

This really isn't the appropriate forum for this.

--------------------
/witty


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CncrndCitzen
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: Gryphon]
      #142243 - 09/12/03 01:01 AM (68.70.174.230)

Quote:

This really isn't the appropriate forum for this.


"Open Forum"?? I beg to differ.

--------------------
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unc2002
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: CncrndCitzen]
      #142284 - 09/12/03 08:09 AM (68.49.240.138)

Let's review. Anyone remember TLRS posting stuff up here that obviously goes in the hot seat? I'm thinking a post about abortion goes down there too. Move it, please.

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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: unc2002]
      #142288 - 09/12/03 08:30 AM (63.188.144.218)

so if the guy had waited five days to punch and kill his kid it would be appropriate here?

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under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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unc2002
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #142291 - 09/12/03 08:31 AM (68.49.240.138)

No. Then it would go down in Headlines.

Don't twist things. This is about abortion. You know as well as I do that it doesn't belong here.


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JoyBug
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: unc2002]
      #142296 - 09/12/03 08:37 AM (128.38.30.21)

I agree it should be in the Hot Seat. I'd like to discuss it there. I am a great supporter of the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

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Always take time to stop and smell the roses... and sooner or later, you'll inhale a bee.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: unc2002]
      #142302 - 09/12/03 08:44 AM (63.188.145.214)

"You know as well as I do that it doesn't belong here."
don't be so sure




--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: JoyBug]
      #142303 - 09/12/03 08:46 AM (63.188.145.214)

how would you forsee getting it past the prochoice lobby? they have a lot invested in protecting their position emotionally and otherwise. some lowlife wasting his kid is scondary to protecting their turf

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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batgirl
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #142305 - 09/12/03 08:47 AM (206.138.130.2)

*cough* Hot Seat *cough* *cough*

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msticaries
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: batgirl]
      #142309 - 09/12/03 08:51 AM (168.103.167.63)

If I wanted to discuss abortion, politics, race issues, religion, I would go to the hot seat.

Yo Admin get this thread to the hot seat where it belongs.

Normally, I just skip over these posts here in the forum, but today is not a good day, I am a woman with PMS and I have a gun....one does not want to mess with me.

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I have PMS and ESP that makes me a b!tch that knows everything!!

--azgypzy


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mfloyd
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #142334 - 09/12/03 09:10 AM (66.225.89.16)

Naahh, then it would go in the crime forum....(Where it should be right now.)

--------------------
"All political states, benign or tyrannical, exist on a foundation of popular consent."


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: mfloyd]
      #142356 - 09/12/03 09:22 AM (63.188.145.214)

now i'll buy that one. like i said some folks have a lot invested emotionally. in a post that was about a lowlife reaching new depths the most important issue/fact to them was "their cause" which was really being snuck in at the end by their "oppo".
but floyd if it goes in crime aren't they gonna resent the implication that "their cause" is being called a crime?

its a shame with all those great legal minds on capital hill they can't write a law to adress some scum bucket who could do that to his wife and kid without that law being suborned to apply in other areas. or is it just that no one wants to write it? have both sides so entrenched themselves in their zealotry that collateral casualties like this case are acceptable in the advancement of their agendas. (both sides)

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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mfloyd
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #142371 - 09/12/03 09:29 AM (66.225.89.16)

Quote:

but floyd if it goes in crime aren't they gonna resent the implication that "their cause" is being called a crime?




I just don't see a "cause." I see a crime, assault at the least.

But, it doesn't really matter to me where it's posted. I just see the open forum as a place to hang out to escape the nasty things in life. Drug testing rules out any other escape.

--------------------
"All political states, benign or tyrannical, exist on a foundation of popular consent."


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: mfloyd]
      #142388 - 09/12/03 09:42 AM (63.188.144.177)

yea especially since the now test for golden seal and count its presence as a positive. if they ever get the hair test in widespread use it'ff clear the streets and fill the jails

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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Gryphon
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #142516 - 09/12/03 11:05 AM (68.110.243.134)

not reading this, not reading this, willing the admins to move this thread to where it belongs, not reading this....

--------------------
/witty


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JoyBug
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #142631 - 09/12/03 12:08 PM (128.38.30.21)

Well, I believe that the act specifically states that it does not apply to abortion, where the mother consents to the act, but to violence against pregnant women who want their babies.

--------------------
Always take time to stop and smell the roses... and sooner or later, you'll inhale a bee.


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Seanski
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: Gryphon]
      #142686 - 09/12/03 12:43 PM (63.159.4.54)

So ignore the thread....

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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: JoyBug]
      #143053 - 09/12/03 04:22 PM (63.188.129.175)

so why's it engender all the fear? the old camels nose under the tent thing?

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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JoyBug
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #143068 - 09/12/03 04:32 PM (128.38.30.21)

It's the legal acknowledgement of life before birth that scares them, even if abortion is specifically excempt from this particular law.

--------------------
Always take time to stop and smell the roses... and sooner or later, you'll inhale a bee.


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treeclimber
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: CncrndCitzen]
      #143184 - 09/12/03 09:33 PM (63.159.36.28)

Can someone explain to me, please, If this child, and yes to me it was a child, was not considered a victim then how does the law justify locking up women who use dangerous drugs while pregnant?

--------------------
Don't ask me to come easy,
Tonight, let me walk away,
Smile at me again tomorrow,
And let this last another day.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: JoyBug]
      #143223 - 09/12/03 10:43 PM (63.188.144.248)

fear pushing into phobia. too bad it keeps em from frying the dirt bag who tried to kill his pregnant wife. oh well some sacrifices have to be made for the cause. i'll bet the dirt bags grateful.

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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cassandra&sarasdaddy
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: treeclimber]
      #143224 - 09/12/03 10:46 PM (63.188.144.248)

it do seem a mite peculiar don't it? i'll bet some lawyer argues long and hard to keep those women free so they can express themselves with the drugs while pregnant. so far as i know the aclu has refrained from playing in this arena. i wonder why? they certainly persue more inane causes

--------------------
under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.


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treeclimber
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Re: Unborn Victims of Violence Act [Re: cassandra&sarasdaddy]
      #143237 - 09/12/03 11:28 PM (63.159.36.13)

Makes no sense to me, I mean legally it's either a baby or it's not. The guy deserves a conviction of murder in my opinion, but the laws aren't consistant.

--------------------
Don't ask me to come easy,
Tonight, let me walk away,
Smile at me again tomorrow,
And let this last another day.


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